EVE General Discussion

As a physicist I can't help myself but to think "This is so wrong", everytime I undock. Think of it, as if you would see an Amarr strained at a leash by a Minimatar.

I know there have been a handfull of threads about this topic. I don't want to stack the next "Make EVE more realistic" thread containing mostly "Don't break our EVE"-Posts on the pile. I neither expect nor want EVE to be a fully realistic spacecraft simulator. But I would prefer the look and feel of Newtonian Physics in EVE quite a lot. (Playing an other game is not an option.)

But I also try to consider the gameplay changes, that would be implied by a major change of the physics:

1. No top speed, no limits?
As the only top speed in the universe is the speed of light in vacuum, space ships at non-relativistic velocities (<30% Lightspeed) have no need to stop accelerating at max 5 km/s (~0.0017% Lightspeed) or lower. But what happens, if a player sets his vessel to max acceleration and goes afk for a couple of hours?

To answer this question, we have to define that max acceleration first. Let's assume a really fast frigate with just one capsuleer. He may endure forces, a normal human wouldn't. So let's assume a constant acceleration of 50 g (about the highest acceleration a human has withstood click). This means 500 m/s² -> 30 km/s after a minute, 1800 km/s after an hour and so on. It would take over 6 hours to cover a distance of 1 AU and 1 day to reach 13 AU, flying at 14.7% lightspeed at that point. At this point the downtime would end the trip.


2. Fights at high velocities
Let's assume, you're sitting in an Interceptor, as an enemy fleet drops out of warp at about 100 km from your position. Your FC orders you to burn to them. Let's say you get as fast as 5 km/s. So you would need about 20 seconds to cover the distance.(Correct me, if I'm wrong. Never flown a fleet interceptor.) What would happen, if you are not limited to 5 km/s but to about 50 g? You would also cover the distance in 20 seconds, but would reach the fleet with a velocity of 10 m/s.


3. Orbiting
An other issue is orbiting. As there is no max velocity, one can always reach the ideal velocity for the radius, given by
v=sqrt(a*R) v=>velocity, a=>acceleration, R=>orbital radius
assuming, that the centrifugal force, necessary to maintain the orbit, comes from the thrusters of the orbiting ship.

Let's say, our 50 g-Ship would like to orbit an other ship at 40 km. Then it would need to reach a orbital velocity of 1414 m/s (angular velocity 0.03 rad/s). That would be reached in less than 3 seconds from 0 velocity. But if the ship approaches with 10 km/s, it would have to decelerate, what would take about 17 seconds.

Hard to control
Most people are concerned about controlling spacecrafts will become a lot harder in this scenario. We are used to the behaviour of cars or planes. So the behaviour of spaceships is hard to get used to. But what would really change? The most maneuvers are performed by pressing one button. What's speaking against keeping it that way. If you order the ship, to orbit at x km, you press the button, and the computer calculates the necessary maneuvers.

What do you think? Are these major impacts on gameplay, or are they rather specific? Have I forgotten something?

And again: This thread isn't about turning EVE into a spacecraft simulator. It is about the impacts, newtonian physics would have onto gameplay. I'm not insisting, that CCP has to change the game.

It would be all-missiles, all the time, since they'd be the only ones who could ever hit anything. Maybe with the odd drone thrown in for good measure…

Arty vs Railguns = chemical vs (electro) magnetic accelerators.

you'd need to carry around a lot of propellent.

There were a couple of I-WAR games that tried it with cruiser/battlecruiser sized ships and flying was hard and unfun.

Having said that I think Star Citizen is taking a crack at it with litte fighters...Oh my the tears from that will be delicious.

Eve is in a newtonian universe. The gameplay oddness is caused by handwavium given off by the warp drives having to be constantly active therefore causing a "drag" on the ship.

or got to SourceForge and download VegaSpace, Newtonian physics is very different from what we have in EVE.

Newtonian physics does not respect the speed of light as a speed limit. That is a purely relativistic thing (and the identification of the speed of light as a cosmic speed limit was proof that Newtonian physics were wrong).

The key issue that comes to mind would be that Newtonian physics would provide no way for webifiers to work, and you would see engagements take place at much longer range as ships would be moving much faster relative to each other. (This would mean that grids and ranges would probably be 50-100 times what they are now).

The problem with real physics is that they are terrible from a gameplay perspective.

- No top speed means that the only limiting factor on ships is mass/inertia... which makes maneuvering a VERY tedious and boring affair for large ships in addition to chaotic and frustrating for smaller ships (I can definitely see overshooting or flying right past the target being a problem).

- Stasis Webifiers would be useless (as they reduce max speeds) unless they are based on some other principle. Making them affect mass might do the trick... but that would make them terrible against smaller ships (which have low mass) while crippling larger ones (which have very high mass) unless the large ships can gain enough speed (in which case nothing will be able to stop large ships from webbing each other and just cruise along at ridiculous speeds laughing).

- Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, and any other speed enhancement mod would have to be re-thought. They all add a certain percentage to the top velocity of a ship (and then some)... but what will they do now? Adding acceleration could be something... but it would only further complicate the problems inherent with flying in frictionless environment... which is un-intuitive to those who have not skated on ice before.

- close range battles will become a thing of the past (maneuvering will be tedious remember?). The only reliable way to damage someone will be with missiles, maybe drones, or shooting guns from extreme range.

all this nerd talk.

for my part, I am able to suspend disbelief and assume that this game is set millennia in the future and that perhaps we in the present don't have all the answers about things we'd like to think we do.

I don't know about you guys but taking like 9 hours to warp to the gas giant near the end of the WH system I live in to gather my robotics I had building and then warp 9 hours back to my POS would just totally make my day.

all of it.

literally.