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Why does null-sec want to conquer high-sec?

Author
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#1 - 2013-11-10 14:38:17 UTC
The direction of Rubicon and recent events make me wonder why null groups even care about high-sec. Mocking them I understand, but why be so fervent about destroying the mechanics of high-sec? Null already has their own space, and if high-sec brings more subscribers into the game then that gives CCP more money to develop the game for everyone, doesn't it?

So I did a qoogle search and found this topic in a thread from a year ago: Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

Which referenced this article in the body: The Big Lie: The Fallacies of Demonisation

I think these are well worth the read for newer subscribers.

It seems the people in null really aren't that happy. Either they're in a system they control with not much they want to do, or they're in a massive battle with TIDI, bubbles, being a spec in a blob, or waiting for their FC to tell them what to do next. So they look over at high-sec and think what a fat, juicy target that they could completely burn and destroy in about three days. Damn the consequences because it would be a lot of fun for those three days.

Instead of sacrificing high-sec, maybe it would be better for CCP to figure out how to make the null alliances happy with where they are.

J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-11-10 14:42:52 UTC
Null people are like a kid who broke his own toy and is jealous about another kid that still has a new, shiny toy. In the kid's mind, the only way to happiness is to grab that shiny toy and break it so both kids are in equal misery.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#3 - 2013-11-10 14:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-11-10 14:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: KuroVolt
So because CCP tricked a bunch of High sec people to jump into Null sec to then get slaughtered by its local denizens, you derive that Null sec wants to conquer High sec? What?

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

Deunan Tenephais
#5 - 2013-11-10 14:53:17 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.

And your post do not explain anything about "the true nullsec" mindset, it actualy sems to confirm what the poster above you wrote.
If you do not want to give meaningful answers then please do not add to the pile-up.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#6 - 2013-11-10 14:55:44 UTC
They do not want to 'conquer' High Sec. Not at all.

They want to wreck it. And High Sec should just deal. That is pretty much the whole point of the game, tbh.

How well one copes with this is a pretty good indication of whether or not EVE is the game for them.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-11-10 14:57:59 UTC
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#8 - 2013-11-10 15:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.

And your post do not explain anything about "the true nullsec" mindset, it actualy sems to confirm what the poster above you wrote.
If you do not want to give meaningful answers then please do not add to the pile-up.


You want an explanation?
Okay... try this one on for size.....

People that lack a sense of entitlement tend to get VERY annoyed at CONSTANTLY hearing those who DO have a sense of entitlement, whine about freakin EVERYTHING THAT DOESN'T GO THEIR WAY.....
When dudes in nullsec have to constantly work to hold onto everything they have.... that's called "doing it for yourself".
When dudes hang out in protected areas, reaping the benefits of a strict set of rules... that's called "assisted living".

It doesn't take a Libertarian to figure this junk out.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-11-10 15:06:14 UTC
I can no longer live this lie.

You are right, OP.

2 weeks ago there was a mandatory meeting for -ALL- Null sec pilots to attend.

There the GBNSC [the Global Directors of the Null Sec Cartels] informed us that the time to strike was upon us.
The years of mock battles and fake practise wars has trained us for this very moment.
Years we pretended that we were all fighting one another when in actuality, we were just preparing.
Burn Jita? The Hulkagedons? ...All just small experiments to locate cracks in the armour.

But now its time...

On the 12th of December, the blue donut will finally reveal itself and crush the High sec forces and their pathetic Concord overlords!


Prepare yourself, OP...Null sec is coming...

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#10 - 2013-11-10 15:08:18 UTC
Citation needed for CCP destroying highsec. Rubicon is about players moving away from being controlled by the Empires.

Alternatively, it could be about GRRRR GEWNS and CCP are going to drop swarms of bees in rifters outside every undock and gate in highsec on 19th November.
Deunan Tenephais
#11 - 2013-11-10 15:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Deunan Tenephais
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.

And your post do not explain anything about "the true nullsec" mindset, it actualy sems to confirm what the poster above you wrote.
If you do not want to give meaningful answers then please do not add to the pile-up.


You want an explanation?
Okay... try this one on for size.....

People that lack a sense of entitlement tend to get VERY annoyed at CONSTANTLY hearing those who DO have a sense of entitlement, whine about freakin EVERYTHING THAT DOESN'T GO THEIR WAY.....
When dudes in nullsec have to constantly work to hold onto everything they have.... that's called "doing it for yourself".
When dudes hang out in protected areas, reaping the benefits of a strict set of rules... that's called "assisted living".

It doesn't take a Libertarian to figure this junk out.

But you are not against hiseccers then, you are against the very concept of hisec.
This is something you need to petition CCP for if you want hisec to disappear.

And as far as entitlement go, care to tell me again why nullsec ores saw tritanium and pyerite be added to their refining process ?
No entitled at all, of course.
Xinivrae
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-11-10 15:24:15 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Null people are like a kid who broke his own toy and is jealous about another kid that still has a new, shiny toy. In the kid's mind, the only way to happiness is to grab that shiny toy and break it so both kids are in equal misery.

Oh but you are mistaken. We really just want to play and share our toys with everyone. Strangely though, people in highsec always seem to complain when we do.What?
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#13 - 2013-11-10 15:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

But you are not against hiseccers then, you are against the very concept of hisec.
This is something you need to petition CCP for if you want hisec to disappear.

And as far as entitlement go, care to tell me again why nullsec ores saw tritanium and pyerite be added to their refining process ?
No entitled at all, of course.


I'm against the people, yes. Not the good ones that quietly go about their lives, not trying to impose their playstyle onto everyone. But the truly terrible ones that demand everything be handed to them, unleash a constant string of terrible F&I posts demanding that anything combat-related be nerfed into irrelevance or completely removed from the game... the ones who petition their stuff back when they lost it through their own lapse of judgement or failure to pay attention.

I'm against anyone who demands that I get slapped with a temp ban because I opened fire on their mining barge in lowsec. I live in that system... I have some damn good reasons for shooting the newbies and miners that I find in my static belts. I'm not sharing that reason with you because that would take an entire thread of its own to explain, but there's a damn good reason, no less... and it's not because I'm "griefing" or "looking for an easy target". I prefer an even match to taking out a week-old toon in a dessie, any day. But I will defend my system.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#14 - 2013-11-10 15:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
direction of Rubicon

I see direction of Rubicon as death of big alliances by thousands papercuts from siphons and guerrilla (i.e. financial instability). Just high-sec/PvE requires much more resources to develop than cheap PvP "content" and CCP either doesn't have resources to expand PvE - or just too afraid of organized null-seccers to do so thus have to get rid of them first. Hence the dramatic name "Rubicon" for relatively calm (at first sign) patch: CCP is initiating war to destroy big alliances.
Deunan Tenephais
#15 - 2013-11-10 15:44:39 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
I'm against the people, yes. Not the good ones that quietly go about their lives, not trying to impose their playstyle onto everyone. But the truly terrible ones that demand everything be handed to them, unleash a constant string of terrible F&I posts demanding that anything combat-related be nerfed into irrelevance or completely removed from the game... the ones who petition their stuff back when they lost it through their own lapse of judgement or failure to pay attention.

I'm against anyone who demands that I get slapped with a temp ban because I opened fire on their mining barge in lowsec. I live in that system... I have some damn good reasons for shooting the newbies and miners that I find in my static belts. I'm not sharing that reason with you because that would take an entire thread of its own to explain, but there's a damn good reason, no less... and it's not because I'm "griefing" or "looking for an easy target". I prefer an even match to taking out a week-old toon in a dessie, any day. But I will defend my system.

If what you say is true, then you seems to be among a minority of low/null sec players.
Most of them are gladly saying that they gank for the "tears" as they call it and for the egoboost they get out of a bloated killboard, to many it is a childish attitude.

On a personnal level, I toyed for a time with the idea of going solo mining in low sec systems, but even if it is doable in the end it is not really worth it, the problem not being the mining itself but the hauling of the ore.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2013-11-10 15:48:19 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
The direction of Rubicon and recent events make me wonder why null groups even care about high-sec. Mocking them I understand, but why be so fervent about destroying the mechanics of high-sec?
Simple: they're not.

Quote:
Instead of sacrificing high-sec, maybe it would be better for CCP to figure out how to make the null alliances happy with where they are.
Good news: CCP is not sacrificing high-sec.

Well, that was easy.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-11-10 15:52:35 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Many posts.


Serious question: If you think that most Null sec alliances and Low sec alliances are basically people with similar mindsets.

Does that mean for example that CVA and Goonswarm are in your eyes one and the same?

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#18 - 2013-11-10 15:57:31 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
I'm against the people, yes. Not the good ones that quietly go about their lives, not trying to impose their playstyle onto everyone. But the truly terrible ones that demand everything be handed to them, unleash a constant string of terrible F&I posts demanding that anything combat-related be nerfed into irrelevance or completely removed from the game... the ones who petition their stuff back when they lost it through their own lapse of judgement or failure to pay attention.

I'm against anyone who demands that I get slapped with a temp ban because I opened fire on their mining barge in lowsec. I live in that system... I have some damn good reasons for shooting the newbies and miners that I find in my static belts. I'm not sharing that reason with you because that would take an entire thread of its own to explain, but there's a damn good reason, no less... and it's not because I'm "griefing" or "looking for an easy target". I prefer an even match to taking out a week-old toon in a dessie, any day. But I will defend my system.

If what you say is true, then you seems to be among a minority of low/null sec players.
Most of them are gladly saying that they gank for the "tears" as they call it and for the egoboost they get out of a bloated killboard, to many it is a childish attitude.

On a personnal level, I toyed for a time with the idea of going solo mining in low sec systems, but even if it is doable in the end it is not really worth it, the problem not being the mining itself but the hauling of the ore.


I'm actually NOT in the minority group. Most PvPers do what they do because it's a challenge. We're not beneath taking the easy kill when it presents itself, but most PvP pilots prefer to be evenly matched, if not outnumbered.

NRDS is a valid playstyle that has its merits... but I operate by NBSI rules. For my corp's "commander's intent", it just makes sense. I wish non-PvP pilots could understand.
I have huge respect for people who shoot back. At least attempt to stand up for yourself.
I have ZERO respect for someone who took a risk and got mad when I came out on top.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-11-10 16:00:26 UTC
Also OP: Did you even read the Malcanis article you linked?

If you did, you obviously only focused on the half dealing with high sec and completely ignored the half dealing with null sec.
Because the whole article actually revolved around why threads like this are stupid.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#20 - 2013-11-10 16:08:15 UTC
Here's a real answer for you:

All actions in this game have consequences.

You may think you live in your own little world in highsec but the actions you take have effects on the ways that other people play the game. You may not be able to see the effects by yourself but if you group together the actions of like-minded players you can see that there are huge changes that may not necessarily be in the game's best interest.

Nullsec is not looking to conquer highsec. Nullsec is looking to have existing content balanced to make the game more fair and entertaining for everyone, and that starts by accepting that all actions have consequences.
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