Intergalactic Summit

Roger That.

No.

You see, Kim-haani, there is a difference between sacrificing one's self for a cause and being stood in front of a wall and shot by a firing squad. What happened during this Call-To-Arms is a massive dropping of the ball. Some basic fleet skills were sorely lacking at a Command Level and a terrible amount of common sense lacking from individual pilots.

What is happening in this thread is a mix up between 'You, pilots, are fools to jump into a well organised chokepoint without proper intel, fleet readiness or organisation of any sort' and 'You're a bad person for even attempting to volunteer yourself for service to CONCORD and/or respective Navies.'

We are not condemning people for joining the Call-To-Arms. We are condemning them following it through and losing lives despite knowing that the task force is scattered across twenty-odd jumps and other issues in the structure and integrity of the various fleets in the task force.

In short. No you aren't a bad Caldari for volunteering your serivces. You're a bad Pilot for not reading the situation and, Gods and Spirits forbid, using your brain to deduct that perhaps jumping was the best idea after all.

-Nicole Hakatain
#KaalakiotaSwag
#Pyre4life

No, this HAS degenerated into nothing more than two sides flaming each other. On the one hand, you have the "You go, you stupid." Camp, on the other, you have the "You no go, you coward!" Camp...

Funny... I remember this little fleet action... Where Patriot and Liberal alike flocked... Straight into the heart of enemy territory, where said enemy had been preparing their counterattack for five years. How anyone thought that a bunch of "RAH RAH!" would have made any difference (goes for me too) is beyond reason. Still, they went. They made their fleets, flew in without intel and no cohesion beyond certain limited groups, and did it anyways.

Oh sure... There was "support" on both sides, for all the good it did... And enough unalighed capsuleers to max out the tracking capabilities of the entire system... How is that anything but a giant cluster looking for a place to happen? Still, we committed.

And the result was... We got our heads handed to us on a stick. Its this little planet called Home, otherwise known as Caldari Prime. Maybe someone's heard of it?

The kicker was... After force of arms failed, another method worked. And most everybody I know spent weeks speaking ill of the effort, when the alternative would have been; We lose. Completely.

Now, here we are again. CalNav said "fight"... And yeah, it was an obvious disaster in the making. Which is different from jumping into the heart of Fed space expecting "superiority" to carry the day how? And yet, there was no "you shouldn't have gone" in the aftermath by those who, through choice or chance, didn't...

Sure, it was a horrendous blunder. But its hardly the first and won't be the last. And nobody here is innocent of the "offense" of fighting for a cause that all sense says is ludicrous. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take a good whiff of what they're shoveling at their so called opponents here, since its the same bull**** that they're already neck deep in.

And now for my own, personal, final word.

Lines have been crossed here, today. General comments have been misinterpreted as personal attacks. Strawman claims have been proffered and clung to. Explanations and clarifications ignored. Conclusions have been jumped to. Personal and Corporate attacks have been made.

I am disappointed. Not in Diana Kim, who knows no better and is, at least, consistent in her opinions and manner of expressing them, but in the pair of you, Saissore and Ishikari. One of you flies for an organisation that was almost our twin just a month ago, eagerly participating in the struggle you now decry so scathingly and demeaningly. The other of you was someone I called kirjuun. Neither of you have acted as ally or comrade today.

You talk about back-biting? I lost crew in a CSAR operation attending Katrina Oniseki's distress call only days ago. I have drunk and sparred and killed with the Stormcrows for months. Ishikari, we've shared concerns and problems and dangers for all the time we've known each other.

Not one of you brought this to me in private before you acted publicly. The pair of you and Oniseki decided to go for the throat in public, in a way that basically demands I double-down and stand my ground. You know the assumptions that invites. The actions in response it demands.

A wise man once told me, "Those that live like the wolf will learn to eat like the wolf."

It's too easy to fall into the habit.

With your crew dying endlessly for something you acknowledge having no meaning, except for killing people you do not appreciate.

I see.

My point was that no matter how intelligent the manner it is fought is, if the end result holds the same meaning, then it does not make any difference, except maybe in cost, though I would argue that the human and material cost of that failure of an operation is probably completely insignificant compared to the cost that has spanned over these years of proxy war.

You have a point for pirates, though, even if being in militia often impairs a lot one's efforts to fight against them (especially the ones inside the militias).

Despite my allegiance to my Federation, there is a reason why I spend most of my time in Nullsec.

I think her point was, for those taking part in faction warfare, they probably have little ground to stand on when talking about meaningless sacrifice and pointless combat. If you're going to scoff at CONCORD's fleet efforts, you'll have to thumb your nose at the CEWPA legislated conflict as well. It's far more pointless and, cumulatively, far more costly.

They are indeed, after all wounded feelings apparently provoked the attack from your diplomat and even brought you down off your mountain, Revenent. A day late to do any good and with nothing of substance to say, but at least you're here.

Clearly this was an idea whose time had simply come.