Player Features and Ideas Discussion

And then what? If this nerf goes through I can switch from a Caracal to a Naracal fit heavies and do exactly the same as I do in a RLML caracal now, sadly it'll be 5 times as expensive ISK wise. At that point when I'm shelling out ISK anyway cruise launchers with precision on a Phoon are more attractive (they'll deal with tackle just fine, go try it on SiSi if you don't believe me) and then once everybody catches on to that we'll nerf cruises back into uselessness again, because god forbid a missile system would actually do reliable damage.

At least we'll still have rockets ey? Back to frigates I go I guess.

An unlinked interceptor takes 100 dps from a caracal shooting precision missiles. Precision missiles however, without range rigs are unlikely to hit a ceptor orbiting at max point range. With CN missiles, its about 70 dps. You can do 5.3k damage to a mwding stiletto with CN missiles before you run out of ammo. If you pretend you can hit it with precisions, you can do 7.2k.

A stiletto has 6.9k ehp.

A RLM caracal will be unable to kill even a single interceptor before having to reload. And this is with 3x bcs on the caracal, and no links on the stiletto. Also no heat on the stiletto - with heat on the mwd it takes significantly less damage, and with heat on the point it can evade precision missiles entirely.

Here I was thinking this was a feedback thread and that your users might have complaints that're actually listened to about you turning their weapons systems into more ancillary bullshit.




Of course you don't think 40 ******* seconds to swap ammo types is a ******* showstopper. This is your pet ancillary garbage. Your users, however, are telling you differently. Listen to them.




Whatever, you just wanted an excuse to introduce more ancillary garbage. It's been pointed out over and over that the only reason RLML ships are prevalent currently is because of the absolute dumpster tier damage application of Heavies. RLML are already low dps and you're desperately seeking any reason to call them OP rather than face the reality that its heavies that need the rework (yet again).

The point of the feedback is supposed to be that your ******* users don't have to suffer through you introducing absolute garbage and then *eventually* tweaking it. Ease of doing so or not. You've received your feedback, stop ignoring it.

Sadly the navy caracal- even with perfect skills, a T2 rigor- still has shitt DPS and application to smaller targets (even with the built in 5% applicaiton bonus.) HML's just don't have the base damage like cruise to, to make them at least some what viable.

I am sorry if i seem scared, I am trying to sound ******* pissed off. If this goes through, i have wasted so much of my skill time in useless ****- That i want my SP reimbursed. HML, HAM, RLM, RHML, are all going to be ******* useless. Sadly so are many of the ships I enjoy flying now, are being thrown into PvP obscurity. If you play, and care about this game (as i do) of course I am going to be up in arms about his. First it was HML nerfs, then TE nerfs, now RLM nerfs. MIssile pilots are getting ****** over hard here.

Rise, did you seriously say you had no idea that people actually used fofs? From my understanding you used to be a solo and smallgang pvper and I find it incredibly hard to believe that you've never seen the benefit to fofs at all especially with rlms. It completely floors me and the only reason I can think of that you would say this is because you don't use fofs, don't know anyone who does use fofs, or just don't believe fofs are actually ever worth using, or some combination of the three.

If it has anything to do with not believing fofs are worth using then perhaps buff them in some way to make them a more viable choice in your mind. Many people would say that buffing fofs would likely be a horrible idea as it could easily make them too powerful but since you are clear that nobody really uses them these people are obviously crazy or something.

I really dislike how you want to force this change through and your response only solidifies my concern that this change is going to happen regardless of what the playerbase, or anyone who flys these ships often enough to understand the advantages and disadvantages will tell you. Being able to no longer swap ammo reliably not being a deal breaker, being useless for an extended amount of time as 'interesting and tension creating', it seems that you're balancing based on the amount of people using something and not giving any attention to why they are using it.

If this change happens, ask yourself if someone would rather have all the new disadvantages of rlm or just use a different ship. If I wanted to pick off frigates there are weaponsystems such as arty that allow me to do that without being pigeon holed into x amount of shots then useless for 40 seconds, or being unable to swap ammo types. If I want to play the role of antitackle then I can just as easily get and omen, rail thorax, even an arty rupture and still have far far more flexibility than these proposed rlms. I will never be unable to shoot a target for fear of being caught in an insanely long reload, I will be able to swap ammo types freely with minimal inconvience (especially as the omen and thorax) and even though my damage would not be frontloaded, it actually lets me play the role of anti tackle to a much greater effect, while still allowing me to shoot heavier ships without worry.

Now the thing that you seem to forget is that the omen, thorax, arty rupture all can presently be viably used in place of the caracal in most fleets. The major reason you have rlms so prevalent is that they are very easy to train into and are amazing ships for new players even when they have lower support skills. They dont require t2 guns as lasers do for scorch, they dont require multiple support skills to be filled out such as rails and arty for tracking, dmg, rof. These new players then can go straight into a cerb, which means even less training time as they already have an easily skilled into weapon system, they get cruiser 5 along the way which benefits the caracal, and other than navigation/capacitor they have no reason to branch out so much to make advanced fits work.

With the rlm change new players would have to learn when to shoot, wether or not to split guns, and a number of other things that no other ships have to worry about. I would much rather advise a newer player against rlms with this change because even though something like lasers take more sp to get into it keeps you from dealing with any of the problems rlms will have, and you can still do the same thing as the caracal, only better because you don't have to worry about a 40 second reload.

99% of eve players are ******** and bad.
99% Of the people posting in this trhread, have little to no small gang/ solo experience- or RLML use
CCP Rise ignoring the feedback forum. and pushing through a pointless, and needlessly stupid change

News at 11'

Try the kiting T1 cruisers, like omen or thorax, with 10-15k EHP and you'll see what I mean. Combat cruisers may survive, but kiting ones have pretty much no way of beating a caracal after these changes.

I was talking about T1 frigs. After the resistance nerf, I don't think even a punisher can have 10k ehp, so what are you talking about, T2 frigs? Those that cost more than a well-fit caracal, each? And it goes against the two of them and still kills one? Sounds pretty OP to me.

I do not approve of this change.

You already lose range and dmg for application, which is the same as going from say 250mm rails down to 150mm rails.
You lose the option to make some fits work where the small fitting requirements of the rapid launchers are your only option if you want tank or buffer also.
Missiles are already not very good in the application of thier paper dps, requiring target painters, rigs and the like. Even a heavy missile, which is supposed to be a anti-cruiser weapon rarely applies its full dmg to anything other then BS size hulls, or overtanked (high sig) shield BC.

I do agree that some ships are too powerfull with these missles, but that is mostly with the ship bonus for extra range. It would be better to look at some of the hulls instead of the weapon system. To get the range to be effective with these you should require rigs.

I will left you to check for yourself. But I ran numbers andmy standard cheaply fit sttaber (not fleet issue, the normal one) that I use for kiting can survive to the cdamage capacity of a CERBERUS if it overheat just 1 module.

Surviving the caracal woudl not even be a problem.