Player Features and Ideas Discussion

stuff

Congratulations, you just absolutely killed RLMLs (and probably RHMLs) for PvE.

I had been using RLML Cerbs in WH C1 sites because there are lots of frigs but you need a stiffer tank than frigs or destroyers can field. Sitting there with my thumb up my butt for 40 seconds waiting for a reload is not an option. What's the dps look like if you factor in reload time? Something similar to beating your opponent with a wet noodle?

RLMLs were so extensively used because you nerfed HMLs to the point of uselessness. So now you nerf RLMLs, and the only viable cruiser missile system left is HAMs.

Seriously, if you guys hate missile users so much, just remove the damn things.

Alright, so far I feel like I'm seeing 3 major areas of complaint, alongside a lot of people who think this will be a good change. Those areas are:

40s reload is boring and will be miserable to use please don't do it

Switching ammo types (other damage types or to FOF(does anyone actually use fof?)) will be very difficult which is key for missile users

This is a nerf to RLML and I love them so please don't do it

I'm not convinced at all by the first complaint. As I've said before, this delay creates new kimds of decision making, it creates spikes of tension in fights rather than a flat amount of damage moving around and beyond those things it can be completely mitigated if you want. As others have pointed out, simply splitting your launchers into two groups and alternating them means you are never stuck in reload. It also means you lose the advantage of having your damage front-loaded into a very high DPS number. Still, if you can completely bypass this 'downside' I don't see how you can argue that this mechanic alone ruins the system.

I commented earlier on the missile switching - I think it is a valid complaint and I'd like to find a work-around for it as an iteration but I don't think it's a show-stopper. Several of the ships using these systems are kinetic bonused which means you don't switch that often. You still have time to switch on the way to a fight based on what damage type might be best. You still have the option to switch as you run out of charges and would be reloading anyway. But again, this is a legit complaint and I want to look into it.

Most of the complaints about it being a straight up nerf make me feel like going ahead with the old plan and leaving RLML in their current state would have been a mistake. I think most of you feeling this way are just disappointed with the idea of losing a slightly over-powered weapon system, which is understandable. Please keep in mind that this change represents a 15-20% damage drop over long fights but offers a new advantage in trade. I suspect that ships like FW Caracals with RLML will remain very strong. Also, if they don't, it's very easy to tune the reload time down slightly or the rate of fire up slightly to bring them into balance and we would absolutely watch that and make necessary adjustments. I would be extremely unhappy if the numbers were bad and rapid launchers disappeared from Caracals and Fleet Scythes completely.

Broader complaints about missiles vs turrets or training time often have merit, but they represent much bigger projects that we fully intend to take on, just not during this rebalance. We hear you though and hopefully we can start working on major module balance projects in the coming releases as we are closing in on finishing our first lap of all the ships in the game.

Hope this answers some of your concerns

Nerf HMLs, and HAM's and make them unsuable: Check
Create RHMLs, with out changing HMLs base stats, means that they will be sub par in every way to cruise: Check
Come up with 40 second reload time for RHMLs + RLMLs: Under the guise of 'create interesting chioces' and to fix an 'OP' weapon system: Check

Completely ignore the forums telling you that this is a horrible idea, and that this will destroy the only missile based crusier weapon: Check

Completly destroy the Cerb, Scythe Fleet, Caracal, Osprey Navy: Check

[...]*explanation [...].

Afterall, pls tell me which ship goes fast enough to catch a cerberus, while also being able to tank those 700 dps for nearly one minute?

Cut the bottom half away :>

I really disagree, especially in kiting situations (I believe you're talking about kiting) they now seem a good bit stronger. correct ammo can be loaded while moving around and honestly, how many times do you even use non-faction missiles? Personally got navy loaded 97% of the time, simply cause they are a good bit better against frigs and talwars, and also cause they aren't that much worse at shooting cruisers and above compared to navies, primarily also looking at my mate/mates I fly with normally carrying the big guns.

Now compressing all your volleys into a much shorter timeframe, a little bit of planning ahead (a la I do not see any targets on dscan I'd use navies on, then reload accordingly - I'm pretty sure people like you got a pretty good overview of what they need and what is around) et voila: For the time you're firing at a target you now deal masively increased damage - and you can reload while kiting away anyways (especially as a user of linked nanoships, you certainly know what I'm adressing.

The rapid heavies I got barely any opinion on, I personally like heavies but am rather unsatisfied with their explosion velocity and volleydamage. Think it's to quick to judge how good an idea those were right now, especially with their assault characteristics, I'd expect to see them a few times on active tanked duo-roam ravens.

Afterall, pls tell me which ship goes fast enough to catch a cerberus, while also being able to tank those 700 dps for nearly one minute?