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Missions & Complexes

 
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Logistics for the wrong health pool

Author
Nac Lac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-11-08 23:55:08 UTC
After much thinking, five minutes or so, about this subject, I have decided to claim that shield repairing is the best logistics choice when the ships your fleet are flying in are completely arbitrary.

With a new corp filled with a mix of shielders and armorers, its not easy to form a fleet compromised of one tanked health pool. Shield tanks are either buffered, passive, or active tankers. Armor is either buffer or active.

For shield tanks, only active tanks can still function in their designated role once their shield is gone, since shield boosters don't care about your current total. For passive and buffer, once their shield is gone, they are just about dead. Their armor is crap and the only resists, if you are lucky, are a damage control mod. So while repping armor on an shieldless shield tanker will keep them alive, its very ineffective and will only delay their demise.

With armor tanks, their pool of shield health, while small, is before their main tank, not after. Which means, while repairing shields on an armor tanker doesn't get a resist bonus, it allows the tanker to save some cap, in the case of active tankers, or preserves their buffered hp that much more.

So, as I am not yet two months into EVE, my knowledge about logistics is pitiful. And I know that convincing my corp to field either armor or shields, but not mixed will be more effective. Have I stumbled upon the blob fleet logistics secret or am I out in an asteroid belt with no rocks to mine?
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-11-09 00:20:30 UTC
Your corp is terrible and/or lacks proper leadership if you can't all get on the same page. Find another corp.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#3 - 2013-11-09 00:35:05 UTC
Your thought/approach is decent enough. For 'kitchen sink' fleets, at least the Logi is solid for half the fleet. Keep in mind that you might have priorities for Logi in that type of fleet. The FC for instance, or other Logi pilots. In many cases, YOU are going to be the first target called anyway.

That said:
When fleets KNOW they have Logi support, they should try and fit specifically with that in mind. If they don't, and then die...well,
A. They deserved it,
B. The opposing fleet is gonna LOL
C. They better learn from it
D. All of the above
Proper built fleets with Logi are 'the next level' in fleet combat.

Now, THAT said:
I like kitchen sink fleets and have flown lots of them. Diversity of ships, pilots, weapons, etc. is powerful in itself if all the pilots are good at what they do.
Younger corps tend to do mixed fleets because of member skills.



Nac Lac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-09 01:20:01 UTC
For the moment, we are just running missions in hi sec. Second, its a newbie corp. To expect ship/skill requirements kinda defeats the point. Finally, its unorganized fleets, "I'm doing a mission, anyone want to join?". So ship choice again, it limited.

Related question; at what point does logi help for mission runs of newbie fleets? Lvl 4+? At least 5 members?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2013-11-09 02:08:41 UTC
Nac Lac wrote:
For the moment, we are just running missions in hi sec. Second, its a newbie corp. To expect ship/skill requirements kinda defeats the point. Finally, its unorganized fleets, "I'm doing a mission, anyone want to join?". So ship choice again, it limited.

Related question; at what point does logi help for mission runs of newbie fleets? Lvl 4+? At least 5 members?


Missions get done based on how long it takes to blow stuff up.

Missions tanking is fairly trivial if you know the triggers. The more ships you have, the faster the peak enemy dps drops, the less tank you need. For solo I already run 4 damage mods, and if I was ganged with another ship like mine, I'd run 5, and there isn't a lot left for logi to improve then.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#6 - 2013-11-09 03:37:09 UTC
Nac Lac wrote:
For the moment, we are just running missions in hi sec. Second, its a newbie corp. To expect ship/skill requirements kinda defeats the point. Finally, its unorganized fleets, "I'm doing a mission, anyone want to join?". So ship choice again, it limited.

Related question; at what point does logi help for mission runs of newbie fleets? Lvl 4+? At least 5 members?


Level 5 missions have some combinations of Logi and DPS.
Level 4's are the first place you will encounter frigates that warp scramble you or web you. In general, 4's are better done with a DPS approach. Even with multiple pilots, all DPS is best. And the end goal is to solo them/blitz them, for max isk.
1's, 2's and 3's should be doable solo, BUT I get the idea that you all want to do stuff as a team.

Props to you guys for doing corp activities together.
And props to you for taking a Logi role.
If you all get bigger and start to PvP, everyone loves a Logi pilot.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-11-09 15:29:28 UTC
I kind of get your reasoning, but there are some simple truths to keep in mind:

1) Logistics is massively more effective if you are buffer-tanked. Active tanks don't gain much because the actual amount of EHP is quite low, therefore there's quite a low ceiling on how much help logi can provide. This can be mitigated slightly by staggering reps.

2) Giving reps to a ship with the wrong tank is all but futile, because their resists and buffer will be so poor and paper-thin

3) Anybody but the newest of newbies should have really basic skills like mechanics/hull upgrades/shield management to level 3 or 4. It's a few hours of training and will allow those players to fit some tech 1/meta modules of the correct type (shield or armour). If you are planning to use logistics, those players will have a far better chance of surviving if they use a basic tank of the correct type, rather than a tank of the wrong type that cannot solo the mission you're running.

If you're taking out a fleet, tell them what logi is available and that they should fit a buffer tank of that type. Anybody who doesn't should expect to lose their ship and consider it a bonus if they don't.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#8 - 2013-11-12 06:01:45 UTC
Back in the day when i used to run Moms (incursions) I once ran with a a mixed fleet. Everyone just fit a single invlu and we where sweet.