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[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#341 - 2013-11-08 23:52:11 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:


My perspective for what it is worth is that this will be a huge buff for those people that like to prey on scouts and tackle at the edges of fights. Getting a quick kill then disengaging away before the victims friends arrive and a moderate nerf to f1 monkeys who still decide to fit these missiles.


Pretty much, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. To me, it seems that at any one time it will be intensely aggravating to someone - either the poor frigate pilot raging about getting nuked by a 520 DPS RLML Cerb, or the poor Cerb pilot twiddling his thumbs reloading for forty seconds, having to hold up his gang on gates or stuck dealing kinetic against Enyos and Ishkurs.

Any change that makes a weapon system simultaneously hated by both sides in an engagement probably isn't the right one.

That isn't to say that there isn't potential in the idea. I quite like the principle of it, but 40 s reload is far too long. Even 30 s would be pushing it. Straight
Elisk Skyforge
State War Academy
#342 - 2013-11-08 23:54:33 UTC
Will Caldari navy battleships get the RHML role bonus too ?
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#343 - 2013-11-09 00:00:22 UTC
Congratulations, you just absolutely killed RLMLs (and probably RHMLs) for PvE.

I had been using RLML Cerbs in WH C1 sites because there are lots of frigs but you need a stiffer tank than frigs or destroyers can field. Sitting there with my thumb up my butt for 40 seconds waiting for a reload is not an option. What's the dps look like if you factor in reload time? Something similar to beating your opponent with a wet noodle?

RLMLs were so extensively used because you nerfed HMLs to the point of uselessness. So now you nerf RLMLs, and the only viable cruiser missile system left is HAMs.

Seriously, if you guys hate missile users so much, just remove the damn things.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#344 - 2013-11-09 00:00:40 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:


Any change that makes a weapon system simultaneously hated by both sides in an engagement probably isn't the right one.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#345 - 2013-11-09 00:05:21 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:

Any change that makes a weapon system simultaneously hated by both sides in an engagement probably isn't the right one.



Not empty quoting.
Ghanar Drraba
Royal Guard of Anacreon
#346 - 2013-11-09 00:06:08 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:


Any change that makes a weapon system simultaneously hated by both sides in an engagement probably isn't the right one.


Words of wisdom.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#347 - 2013-11-09 00:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kane Fenris
stoicfaux wrote:
1. turn off auto-reload.

2. deploy mobile base hut/yurt

3. right click base, select open fitting services

4. reload via fitting screen

5. continue shooting.

Haven't had a chance to try it on the test server yet, but...



this should not work it would just be awful gameplay
the launchers should work propperly not through loopholes


btw there an intresting pattern people arent happy with proposed changes ccp comes up with an awful 2nd try all people hate it and then they go back to the first version.... worked with marauders Big smile
Scooter6976
Order of Celestial Knights
#348 - 2013-11-09 00:11:50 UTC
Why does ccp insist on adding one fail gimp on top of another. If rlml's are really op, or broken in anyway, then reduce the range with which they project their already **** dps. Let hams be the big dmg variant, hml's the sniper variant, and leave rlml's to killing frig sized targets, since that is their primary purpose for caldari pilots.

If rlml's are suddenly the 'only thing that makes sense to fit', then mayb the heavy hand that was taken to hml's was a bit too heavy....duh. no other weapon system that is effective on frigs, and coincidentally other sized targets is getting this same mal-treatment (220 ac's come to mind) so what makes rlml's so special. as I said, if its range, then adjust the range bonus on the ships that can use rlml's, or adjust the base light missile flight time/velocity.

the caracal/cerb rlml fits have an inherent drawback...relatively low dps. for solo work, this isn't necessarily an issue as your primary 1v1 targets are not going to be big hulls that can easily tank you. small targets are what these ships eat for lunch, and it just so happens they are fairly effective against larger targets, BUT NOT to the degree that other medium platforms can be.

If ccp has such a hard on for a new weapons system (RHML), then fine, add em in, do whatever madness you choose to believe will make the new mods something ppl will want to use, but ffs, leave a good thing alone for once! Caldari pilots deserve a reliable means of dispatching frigs size targets from a medium size hull. Being as how their ship line up is trumped in almost every arena, by another ship from a different faction, it seems fitting that caldari can be king of the hill on frig dispatchment. why take an otherwise versatile ship that can be good at both pve AND pvp, and make it into a ship that is only good for pvp, and only in scenarios where you are either 1v1 against a smaller hull, or you outnumber your target??

this is NOT any sort of gift to small gang/solo unless by small gang you mean 15+. then you can project as a group taking out a couple >cruiser size ships max before everyone has to warp off to reload. just stupid, when those same 15 could be in anything else and b more effective.

has anyone tried to figure how much ammo and thus TIME will be wasted if noobs try to use caracals on low lvl mish? you kno, when you let off a volley or two more than you needed to kill that ship your shooting.....every wasted volley gets you that much closer to the point where they have to warp off to station to reload. how ridiculous is that??

and wth is going to use rhml's for anything other than pve? which these proposed stats on rapid launchers, I can see them becoming mainstream vs the other variants. just my opinion.
Scooter6976
Order of Celestial Knights
#349 - 2013-11-09 00:29:29 UTC


and wth is going to use rhml's for anything other than pve? which these proposed stats on rapid launchers, I can't see them becoming mainstream vs the other variants. just my opinion. [/quote]


^^I meant CANT in that last sentence.
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#350 - 2013-11-09 00:30:52 UTC
This change sounds pretty sketchy to me.

There is a fundamental imbalance with all missile systems, and you (Rise/CCP) are making an awkward tweak to one of them in an attempt to fit it into the already broken spectrum.

The correct approach would be to tweak all missile systems once again (I know, sigh). But that's the point of these major rebalance efforts over the past couple of years.

The problem was that previously, CCP would try to do "point rebalances" where they tweak a single thing, like a ship, but since all ships were so out of whack that approach didn't work well. So CCP decided to just rebalance the entire spectrum of ships.

So why abandon that principle now and do a point rebalance of RLML/RHMLs when CCP should balance the entire weapons class? "Because we already rebalanced missiles" is not an acceptable answer, since obviously that was an unsuccessful rebalance.
X'ret
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2013-11-09 00:45:32 UTC
i do small gang/solo pvp mostly, fw area, hardcore space. After the hac rebalance my fav ship is Cerb with rapid lights.

We can talk about all day long about dps and rof, 40sec reload time on any weapon is not much but a very bad joke.

I like what you are doing in EVE Rise, all the ship balances are great, thats why i still playin this game after 8years. A good timed reload when you think faster than the whole blob which appears on ds within 3m km could be the difference between live or death, mostly 10sec feels like perpetuity too.

40sec??? Are you kidding right? First day of april still far away!

Take a deep breath and start to think it trough again, worst idea i've heard for years, and i heard many!

Dont kill my gamestyle, dont kill smallgang pvp, dont kill RLML's, dont kill RLML caracal/cerb!

Also.., just noticed RLML PG needs increased HUGE!

Requesting Shiva for 8 arms facepalm

I cant say more but PLEASE..
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#352 - 2013-11-09 01:08:48 UTC
How about balancing the other missiles instead of screwing with the rapid line?

Nobody is going to find 40 second reloads to be "fun" either.
S1euth
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#353 - 2013-11-09 01:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: S1euth
40 second reload time is fine. It's less time than it takes to warp off grid and back and this mechanic will work well for shield ships that have passive tank regeneration. If we're negotiating, you could even up this to 50-60 seconds in exchange for more DPS. ;)

Only 50 seconds of pew pew time is too short; up that to 80-90 seconds by increasing clip size and it'll be more reasonable total damage output. 1min30sec is barely any time on grid and would be more reasonably balanced.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#354 - 2013-11-09 01:14:34 UTC
Salpad wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
Lots of people not getting the potential of front-loaded dps against smaller targets in this thread I think.


Yeah. to me, zooming around in a Caracal or variant, and being able to murder frigate-sized targets, sounds quite attractive.



carcals already do that.. BUt after the changes they wil NOT. BEcause they will zoom kill 2 frigates and have to run because their missiles ended.


The TQ caracal can stay and kill way MORE frigates in a Way more efficient way

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#355 - 2013-11-09 01:16:10 UTC
JEFFRAIDER wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Colman Dietmar wrote:
From what I've seen, rapid caracal is already pretty much impossible to deal with using T1 frigs AND can be a threat to cruiser-sized kiting ships. Why buff it more? If anything, I would like to see a nerf to rapid launchers, not a buff to their gankiness.

And yes, I did not miss the reload time, it's just that in 50 seconds you can kill some cruisers with that 400dps, not to speak of smaller targets. If the launcher did not have enough active time to kill a cruiser, then it would be better, although it would still make caracal pretty much immune to frigs.



Let me be celar again for the 7th time. NO You cannot kill a cruiser. Even if the DPS was DOUBLE that!

You cannot dish enough dps to kill a SHIELD tanked rupture before you run out of ammo on a CERBERUS. ON a caracal you will not even reach its armour.


That sounds right to me. 400dps is not enough to kill a 25k ehp cruiser in 40 seconds



That basically measn the ship is DEAD for solo PVP. I mean the cerberus. THe caracal cannot do even 15K EHP damage.

A wellt anked cruiser acn tank on 3 caracals and laugh while they need to reload.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#356 - 2013-11-09 01:20:03 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Does anyone else feel that 95% of the people that post in these threads have no f-ing idea what they are talking about?

There is a cancel button just to the left of the post button and if you aren't pushing cancel more often that pushing post you are likely wasting everyones life.

My perspective for what it is worth is that this will be a huge buff for those people that like to prey on scouts and tackle at the edges of fights. Getting a quick kill then disengaging away before the victims friends arrive and a moderate nerf to f1 monkeys who still decide to fit these missiles.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out. CCP thankyou for actually trying new things instead of taking the safe easy road.


No.. You are the one that clearly have no clue if you cannto understand that most peopel complaiing are complainign on the SOLO PVP or near solo PVP experience that is being MURDERED!!!



The change massively nerfs the logn term dps of the ship, by 33% So the 2+ 0 = 1 + 1 is a LIE!!!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kane Fenris
NWP
#357 - 2013-11-09 01:24:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

No.. You are the one that clearly have no clue if you cannto understand that most peopel complaiing are complainign on the SOLO PVP or near solo PVP experience that is being MURDERED!!!



the actually really sad thing is so much of cruiser sized solo pvp depends on this weapon....
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#358 - 2013-11-09 01:28:15 UTC
Come on, I just bought a ton of RLML cruisers.

Refund?
Justin Cody
War Firm
#359 - 2013-11-09 01:31:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Octavian Madullier wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Fires for 50s, reloads for 40.

I surely can't be the first person to think two weapon groups allowing for either constant, sustained damage yet with the option of massive spike application.


LOL ... no you are not ... its the obvious way to use them ...and u have different missile types in each group thus avoided having only kinetic loaded when facing Caldari ...



While there are a few situations that this is a good plan, this is also similar to "ungrouping" your artillery weapons. More often than not, you want to put as much damage on your target as quickly as possible.



That's exactly what makes this an effective buff, at least for PvP.


So I take it you're the satan worshipper behind these shennanigans. Can you please stop attempting to fix something that isn't broken? Just go fix drone assignment or something geeze. If there was something *wrong* with RLML's I'd say so...but honestly they **** face as it is. For RHML's I can see them being an excellent weapon but all it really indicates is that torpedoes need a tweak to explosion velocity or radius so that they aren't so terribad at killing anything less than a structure or siege/triaged capital.

If you're for this you should also be for a 10 minute reload on all artillery. Way to make me want to "untrain" all of my caldari skills. Like I said this is like viagra that makes you **** faster and heavier but you have to wait another day to do it again because of brand new prostate mechanics! This makes things LESS fun.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#360 - 2013-11-09 01:32:35 UTC
Terrible idea, the reasons have already been said.


Come on Rise, WTF are you thinking?