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[Rubicon] Ghost Sites & Ascendancy Implant Set

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LiKuei
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#281 - 2013-11-07 04:16:59 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
Sme Ematu wrote:
Im a bit late to this discussion and only half way through the thread but i think i have an awesome suggestion!

CCP Affinity wrote:
.... I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design...


Would it be possible to do both, system scanner AND probing?

If you warp to the signature found by the system scanner you don't enter the ghost site itself, but a site with a few cans that add a bookmark to your journal once opened (like escallations) for the actual ghost site.
On the other hand if you are probing the system to find the ghost site you get the advantage to directly warp to it.
This way the site wouldn't be limited to players with probing ships but still provide a small advantage for someone putting effort into something.


The following part of my post isnt directly related to ghost sites alone so continue if you like to read more about my ideas based on this concept:

I have been thinking about this for some time now and i think it would really add to exploration in general if you would take the current escalation system from anomalies and weave it into signatures and expand the probing system through the use of the escalation mechanics:

1. make multiple anomalies spawn in the surrounding systems of the actual Ghost site and give them a chance to drop an item from hacking/analyzing cans that can be activated to generate an escalation entry in your journal pointing towards the actual ghost site a few jumps away. This wouldn't impact the rarity of ghost sites at all while enabling more player to find the site and tho increasing competition.
I will continue to call those dropped items "hints" and i imagine them to be like those datasheets you get from Data cans in hacking/analyzer sites

2. add those "hints" to regular hacking and analyzer sites data cans which currently are basicly trash if there isnt a faction or good t2 bpc copy in it!

3. "Hints" can be activated to generate entries in your journal that point you to sites with more hints or other cool stuff. Those could be things like DED plexes or directions to constellations with ghost sites.

4. Those shouldn't spawn new sites!!! rather point you to already spawned ones (increases competition and encourages to travel).

5. "hints" can be sold at the market. This adds great choice to the system and new players could focus on hacking/analyzer and sell the "hints" to veteran players who focus on the combat sites requiring more sp and experience all the while everyone could still try to find and complete the sites them self.



I have many more ideas for those "hints" and the expansion of the current anomaly escalation system if there is an interest. If you like it i would make a dedicated thread in the ideas forum!


That sounds very good, I'd like to see it implemented. This way, the true exploration value would be undiminished, but everyone would get a crack at the sites, even if, say, their friend managed to find only an "artifact" that suddenly interfaces with their navigational computer and uploads a set of coordinates.


Love the idea.
xXxGaNj4L0RD1337xXx
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2013-11-07 10:27:49 UTC
It was mentioned earlier that the cans would explode after one failed attempt. What would happen if I stumbled upon someone completing a ghost site in a covops, and killed them in a destroyer? Would I then lose my ship to the can's explosion? Would the person originally in the site be podded by the can's explosion? Does this mean the only ways to get any rewards from a site someone else discovered first are to kill them after they loot the can and hope the valuable items drop, and to hack one of the remaining cans while they work on their own?
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#283 - 2013-11-07 17:49:05 UTC
Sme Ematu wrote:
Im a bit late to this discussion and only half way through the thread but i think i have an awesome suggestion!

CCP Affinity wrote:
.... I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design...


Would it be possible to do both, system scanner AND probing?

If you warp to the signature found by the system scanner you don't enter the ghost site itself, but a site with a few cans that add a bookmark to your journal once opened (like escallations) for the actual ghost site.
On the other hand if you are probing the system to find the ghost site you get the advantage to directly warp to it.
This way the site wouldn't be limited to players with probing ships but still provide a small advantage for someone putting effort into something.


The following part of my post isnt directly related to ghost sites alone so continue if you like to read more about my ideas based on this concept:

I have been thinking about this for some time now and i think it would really add to exploration in general if you would take the current escalation system from anomalies and weave it into signatures and expand the probing system through the use of the escalation mechanics:

1. make multiple anomalies spawn in the surrounding systems of the actual Ghost site and give them a chance to drop an item from hacking/analyzing cans that can be activated to generate an escalation entry in your journal pointing towards the actual ghost site a few jumps away. This wouldn't impact the rarity of ghost sites at all while enabling more player to find the site and tho increasing competition.
I will continue to call those dropped items "hints" and i imagine them to be like those datasheets you get from Data cans in hacking/analyzer sites

2. add those "hints" to regular hacking and analyzer sites data cans which currently are basicly trash if there isnt a faction or good t2 bpc copy in it!

3. "Hints" can be activated to generate entries in your journal that point you to sites with more hints or other cool stuff. Those could be things like DED plexes or directions to constellations with ghost sites.

4. Those shouldn't spawn new sites!!! rather point you to already spawned ones (increases competition and encourages to travel).

5. "hints" can be sold at the market. This adds great choice to the system and new players could focus on hacking/analyzer and sell the "hints" to veteran players who focus on the combat sites requiring more sp and experience all the while everyone could still try to find and complete the sites them self.



I have many more ideas for those "hints" and the expansion of the current anomaly escalation system if there is an interest. If you like it i would make a dedicated thread in the ideas forum!



Sounds great!
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2013-11-08 02:03:11 UTC
OldWolf69 wrote:
Random Woman wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Guess we can all say you added something to wormhole space :-/



When we add content we should think about adding it to WH space also :) This is not supposed to be a huge WH feature, but they will get the best blueprint and it's worth mentioning they will be in WH space also as that is not always a given.



Now you have done something to WH space (not forcefully excluded the systems from the "spawns in" list) , i think its save to say you can leave it alone for the next 15 year.

Everyone in WHs was starving for new pve content that is showing up on our favourite new tool the team trisomie 21 friendly discovery scanner.

You might want to think about adding local to WHs and gates that would improve wh space even more.

Why not NPC stations then? Full upgraded ones? Maybe a Sleeper Epic Arc too?
Lol


You forgot an NPC group to punish players also.
Photon Ceray
Palmyra Universal Enterprise
#285 - 2013-11-08 10:03:22 UTC
I did 70 jumps on SiSi looking for one and didn't find anything!

If you want players to test those sites then SEED THEM properly!
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#286 - 2013-11-08 11:33:43 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Hi all!

Ghost sites are now available for testing in Singularity! For your convenience we added them all (all factions and all difficulties) to the system EZA-FM, one jump from 6-CZ49.

The sites are NOT final in this version, here a long list of things to be changed / added / fixed:

  • Balancing of the (hidden) timers
  • Balancing of the area of effect damage
  • Audio (missing in most sites)
  • Graphics of the structures and surrounding objects
  • Positions of the structures need to be tweaked
  • Popup messages are still missing, when warping to the site
  • Distributing the sites across the universe (they are way to frequent in some systems (mostly minmatar high-sec and not distributed at all in other areas)
  • Loot: More frequent loot to be added (about 70% of the structures are empty at the moment).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Bebeth Jasmone
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2013-11-08 12:08:58 UTC
Thank you Big smile
Photon Ceray
Palmyra Universal Enterprise
#288 - 2013-11-08 13:18:57 UTC
These sites are BADLY designed.

I was just doing a lesser guristas site in my 8/10 ded tanked tengu, then suddenly I got insta popped.

Explanation was that rats shot the labs and the explosion killed me. well i had 85/80 kin/therm resits, and the site was guristas. if a 1b ship gets insta popped in the easiest high sec site then it's NOT worth doing in any way or shape, especially not for the crappy implants.

cya.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#289 - 2013-11-08 13:58:32 UTC
Photon Ceray wrote:
These sites are BADLY designed.

I was just doing a lesser guristas site in my 8/10 ded tanked tengu, then suddenly I got insta popped.

Explanation was that rats shot the labs and the explosion killed me. well i had 85/80 kin/therm resits, and the site was guristas. if a 1b ship gets insta popped in the easiest high sec site then it's NOT worth doing in any way or shape, especially not for the crappy implants.

cya.



Just to requote Habakuk ;)

''The sites are NOT final in this version, here a long list of things to be changed / added / fixed:

Balancing of the (hidden) timers
Balancing of the area of effect damage
Audio (missing in most sites)
Graphics of the structures and surrounding objects
Positions of the structures need to be tweaked
Popup messages are still missing, when warping to the site
Distributing the sites across the universe (they are way to frequent in some systems (mostly minmatar high-sec and not distributed at all in other areas)
Loot: More frequent loot to be added (about 70% of the structures are empty at the moment).''

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#290 - 2013-11-08 15:47:18 UTC
So I understand correctly that implants will be made entirely by Eve players? Or only these warp speed implants?

Was I dumb to hold out hope that implant manufacturing would rely on some Eve-Dust connection?

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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#291 - 2013-11-08 16:51:03 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:

Popup messages are still missing, when warping to the site

thats a good thing, right?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#292 - 2013-11-08 17:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Drifter
just ran all the sites.

can explosions seem to be:

omni damage profile
have a base damage profile of 2800 across all site brackets
damage is sig radios dependant after 2800 is applied (tanked stratios with WMD on took 3800 per can explosion)
AOE of explosions are 10km.

things that need changing IMO:

-scale down base damage profile by:
75% high sec sites
50% low sec sites
0% null sec sites
+25% WH sites

-scale AOE also Via site
2.5km in lesser
5km in standard
7.5km in improved
10km in superior

-should only need 1 WH site
-timer should also scale per site class (scale UP)
-can positioning should be square, inside the cans is full damage on site completion, outside of formation can expect to take 1-3 cans worth of damage
-warp in should be at the center of said formation

GIVE US VISUAL/AUDIO QUES TO INDICATE TIMER STATUS

Rat spawns should scale.
frigates with 1 cruiser for highsec
cruisers with 1 BC for lowsec
BCs with one BS for null
3 to 5 sleeper frigates and one sleeper cruiser for WH (these sites should also yeld normal sleeper rewards)

SITE NAMES:
change them up a little and remove the surfix "covert" as they are any thing but..

apart from that well done
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#293 - 2013-11-08 17:13:52 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
just ran all the sites.

can explosions seem to be:

omni damage profile
have a base damage profile of 2800 across all site brackets
damage is sig radios dependant after 2800 is applied (tanked stratios with WMD on took 3800 per can explosion)
AOE of explosions are 10km.

things that need changing IMO:

-scale down base damage profile by:
75% high sec sites
50% low sec sites
0% null sec sites
+25% WH sites

-scale AOE also Via site
2.5km in lesser
5km in standard
7.5km in improved
10km in superior

-should only need 1 WH site
-timer should also scale per site class (scale UP)
-can positioning should be square, inside the cans is full damage on site completion, outside of formation can expect to take 1-3 cans worth of damage
-warp in should be at the center of said formation

GIVE US VISUAL/AUDIO QUES TO INDICATE TIMER STATUS

Rat spawns should scale.
frigates with 1 cruiser for highsec
cruisers with 1 BC for lowsec
BCs with one BS for null
3 to 5 sleeper frigates and one sleeper cruiser for WH (these sites should also yeld normal sleeper rewards)

SITE NAMES:
change them up a little and remove the surfix "covert" as they are any thing but..

apart from that well done


thank you, this is exactly the information we need :)

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#294 - 2013-11-08 17:14:05 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
So I understand correctly that implants will be made entirely by Eve players? Or only these warp speed implants?

Was I dumb to hold out hope that implant manufacturing would rely on some Eve-Dust connection?


Just these implants for now

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Xavbian Deepleaf
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#295 - 2013-11-08 17:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavbian Deepleaf
So there are my suggestions for the ghost sites:

Actually, when you finish hacking every can in a ghost site, it instant spawn the NPCs (i was in a Lesser Blood Raider Covert Research Facility) after i finished the last container i was insta poped by the spawn of NPCs (with warp scramble by the way, is it normal for a lesser?) who destroyed the empty containers.

Probably changing from "Cosmic anomaly - Combat site" to "Cosmic anomaly - Ghost site" would be a good idea too ?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#296 - 2013-11-08 18:13:34 UTC
Question: let's say you successfully hack everything, then the timer sounds. Will the loot still be destroyed by the NPCs?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#297 - 2013-11-08 20:35:47 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Question: let's say you successfully hack everything, then the timer sounds. Will the loot still be destroyed by the NPCs?


The timer will keep running, even if everything is hacked. NPCs will appear and destroy the containers (including any remaining loot). Grab your loot as soon as possible and run (or tank).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
#298 - 2013-11-09 06:01:22 UTC
As they're currently implemented on SISI, Ghost Sites are a land-mine just waiting for some new player to stumble over them.

There's no notification from either the system scanner or a warp-in message that these sites are - unlike basically everything else in EVE - time-limited and will kill you if you are too slow.

Nor is there any (obvious) indication while you're in the site that a timer is counting down and you need to hurry.

And finally (and most damning) when the cans do go off, there is absolutely no explanation as to why you're suddenly sitting in empty space in your pod thinking "WTF just happened!?"

None of that matters if you already know what Ghost Sites are and how they work ... but there are going to be a lot of players who don't.

CCP Habakuk wrote:
The sites are NOT final in this version, here a long list of things to be changed / added / fixed:
...
Popup messages are still missing, when warping to the site

Hopefully this means that this will be at least partly fixed in the final version - when the popups get added, please make sure they make it clear what people are getting into.

Adding another message when the can(s) blow up would also be useful - possibly in Local rather than a popup since these are supposed to be fast-paced sites. Forcing people to stop and click away a popup message in a site where every second counts is probably a bad idea.
Paxte Eriker
EVE University
Ivy League
#299 - 2013-11-09 09:04:39 UTC
Just spent no more than 15-20 minutes running through a couple of each level of ghost site in a CovOps w/ Hacking 5 and a T2 Data Analyser and my first reaction was that the sites in their current form feel really easy to complete. After I worked out what container names corresponded to what level of the hacking minigame I didn't feel like I would be up against a time crunch unless I had to actively worry about another player warping in on me.

The difference between the high-sec (Lesser?) and low-sec (Standard?) sites also seemed non-existent as having the T2 analyser in a CovOps completely removes any difficulty from the very-easy level of the minigame and turns it into a straight clicking expedition to find the system core while the easy level can be rammed straight through with very little (if any) chance of failing as long as you make a little bit of effort to expose the most likely locations for the system core first.
Bebeth Jasmone
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2013-11-09 14:58:45 UTC
I've been running several sites and I kinda like the way their are, and I don't have top hacking skills (L4 atm).
I love that there is no scattering, that should be removed from the Data and Relic sites too imo.
The chance for drops could maybe be little higher though Blink

Good job on this!