Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes.

I like the idea.

I hate the way logi works now.

So you're saying as proposed is probably balanced?

just compare HML HAML and now-RML on something like caracal. what point to use HML ?

Honestly, I haven't run the numbers completely.... but in my experience PvP'ing (I do a large amount of solo and small gang PvP), 20s is too short for a cruiser / BC / BS gank, unless you have numbers. I'd almost look at it in terms of expected EHP of your target:

For an AF, I'd want to dish out 15k damage before the reload to "bring it down". at 400 dps, this is 37.5s, which means the current 50s time period of the RLML is excellent, allowing me to drop one (or more weaker targets) between reloads.
-- I chose 15k, because your tanky AF's have this much EHP, and when talking over a 50s window, your Active tanking AF's can have around this much potential EHP.

For a cruiser, I'd want to dish out 50k damage before the reload. At 900 dps, this is 56 s, which means the current RHML may be a tad too short activation time. Unfortunately, there is a pragmatic limit on the patience of pilots, and 40s is close to that cusp. As such, the application time should probably have a cap around 60s.

Overall, im not a fan of the proposed 50s shooting, 40s reloading aspect. Mathematically it might be "fair" but sitting around waiting on 40s reloads doesnt sound "fun" to me.


With ASB/AAR the long reload actually introduces some very interesting decision making opportunities for pilots when they go on reload: do i try to get out? do i try to reload in combat? do i keep pulsing the module and hope to get through the rest of the fight before my cap dies? This missile change doesnt come with any interesting decision making. You drop your load of missiles and hope you won, but if you didnt, you probably just sit there and watch yourself die without the option to fight back.


One of the strengths of missiles as a weapon type is selectable damage types. This proposal will either require some sort of weird change to the way ammo switching works, or will kill that advantage in these launchers.


Because of flight time, its pretty common for launchers to end up cycling an extra time after the target is dead (ie you have 2 flights of missiles in the air and the first flight kills the target before the 2nd set lands). Its always been a minor annoyance because it costs you extra ammo for no purpose, but it also accelerates you towards that reload point, which now is going to be extra painful. The high ROF of rapid launchers makes this much more likely (and in the case of RHML the range creates potential for having more than 1 wasted volley in the air). Yes, its possible to turn off turrets before the target dies, but that can be a pretty risky option when you are trying to break remote reps, or racing against an ASB reload or something similar.


side question, has anyone crunched the numbers on these to see how they look as suicide ganking options? How does the front loaded damage on these compare to common suicide ganking ships (tornado and catalyst) and how much dmg can these things put out inside the normal concord response times? (might be completely irrelevant, i havent ever looked at the numbers for suicide ganks, but i feel like suiciding is already easy enough that we dont need to make it any more efficient than it already is).

This man is a good man and quality poster. Wrecking these terrible terrible modules while I sleep. Godspeed good sir. Godspeed.

No, you dont.

RHML Tengu, I'm in.
I still want the missile velocity bonus on my Ravens, though.

By way of comparison, 1400mm artillery users have to wait 29 seconds between each shot.

exactly what i was thinking also ....

but still ... 40 seconds ??? ...