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[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

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Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#221 - 2013-11-08 18:55:23 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
but now you have to wait an entire day to do it again!

It's about the quality, not the quantity. Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

El 1974
Green Visstick High
#222 - 2013-11-08 18:59:16 UTC
I think you are creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

You recently hit heavy missiles with the nerf bat to the point where nobody is using them any more. Now you create a larger version which doesn't have very distinct damage application compared to cruise missiles. Buff HM damage application a bit and you strengthen the RHML role for hitting smaller targets.

The second issue is the fact that you seem to think that RHMLs are somehow overpowered because they will do more damage in almost any scenario. Fleets can use TPs and/or Webs when needed, making the difference to Cruise missiles very small against almost any opponent. Once you add range to the equation I feel that in many cases FCs will prefer Cruise Missiles over RHMLs. You cannot dictate range in a battleship fleet, so the ability to apply damage at range can be crucial.
AskariRising
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#223 - 2013-11-08 19:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: AskariRising
409 dps wont be able to kill a dual MASB hawk... or will it?
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#224 - 2013-11-08 19:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: zbaaca
Malcanis wrote:
Justin Einstein wrote:
The problem that I can thing of is for missioning. I use Rapid lights on my Caracal now for L2 missions, but there is no way that it will be practical to do this after the change I think.


Why? Sustained DPS will be the same.

how about speed tanking ? u spend all ammo and didn't kill webber = fail. it will be unusable for pve.

problem is that no1 wants to use overnerfed HM.

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#225 - 2013-11-08 19:13:36 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
So the Cerberus becomes more and more interesting...



Nope .. they just KILLED the cerberus, that was the most powerful solo HAC.


cuss its burst dps went up 48% and its sustained dps went down 9%

totally how i see that as killed


Its sustained dps is going down by 20%, not 9%.

Thats in addition to being unable to swap damage types, swap between t2 and faction ammo, reload during short warps, reload during jam cycles, and being unable to supply the on-demand dps that is the entire reason to include RLM ships in a small gang.


thanks for the math update.

honestly just make it 30 second reload time then.

that should fix things

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#226 - 2013-11-08 19:13:56 UTC
I see it like becoming a musket with fleets. One line steps up and fires, then moves back to reload while the other takes their place.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#227 - 2013-11-08 19:14:12 UTC
zbaaca wrote:
problem is that no1 wants to use overnerfed HM.

And yet I still see HML Drakes everywhere I go...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#228 - 2013-11-08 19:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dav Varan
Very probably the worst idea ever to be presented by a dev to the player base.

40 seconds to switch damage type

No use to fleet players due to crap long term dps
No use to solo players due to dying while switching to optimal ammo
No use to PvE due to crap long term dps.

Take yourself to the HR department and ask to be fired please.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#229 - 2013-11-08 19:17:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
zbaaca wrote:
problem is that no1 wants to use overnerfed HM.

And yet I still see HML Drakes everywhere I go...


Ive also seen laser ravens, 400 plate harbingers and small armor rep maelstroms. Doesnt make any of them good.
Fergus Runkle
Truth and Reconciliation Council
#230 - 2013-11-08 19:18:07 UTC
How about instead of messing with the stats for a launcher you actually mess { FIX} with the stats for the missiles so that HML and HAM ARE the best choice weapons for hitting same size opponents and RLML come in as dedicated anti support weapons.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#231 - 2013-11-08 19:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Michael Harari wrote:
Ive also seen laser ravens, 400 plate harbingers and small armor rep maelstroms. Doesnt make any of them good.

In terms of mid-range/entry-level missile platforms, HML Drakes are fine. The damage application on Navy Drakes is better, although HMLs certainly could stand to see some improvement.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-11-08 19:24:41 UTC
Ha Ha Ha Ha

40 seconds to swich to optimal ammo


I'm never gonna fit that trash

This is gonna make me lol all night

Do dev's ever fight in missile boat ?


Whats wrong with dps half way between hml and cml and be done with it.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#233 - 2013-11-08 19:24:53 UTC
So to expand on the idea of Shield transporters working like an ASB i will use the tech I version of the larger variant as an example.


activation cost stays the same

but without any cap charges loaded the amount rep per cycle will go down to:

240 per cycle

capacity 112 m3

can use 400's or 800's

with cap charges in it goes up to

540 per cycle.

one min reload time.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#234 - 2013-11-08 19:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Just to illustrate how bad hml drakes are, im going to edit in some screenshots of a cruise raven compared to an hml drake. I made this raven to be as similar to the drake as possible. There are much better raven fits.

1. http://pbrd.co/1aJBQBn Precision raven vs drake shooting each of 3 ammo types. Cruise raven is equal to drake with faction missiles in terms of dps applied on a mwding frigate. Drake is however limited to kinetic damage (raven beats hml precisions if drake has to load off racial ammo), and has only 30km range.

2. http://pbrd.co/1aJC4bH Note that the raven is faster, with longer lock range, more dps (and this is with the lowest damage ammo available to the raven), more range, a heavy neut, ability to reload to fury with about 850 dps and so forth. The drake has better scan res, smaller sig, and slightly better agility (which is more than offset by the reduced speed).

3. Yes, you can give up dps on the drake for a 2nd nano, or tank for a polycarb.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#235 - 2013-11-08 19:27:06 UTC
Looks like a fun mechanic - who doesn't enjoy reloading!

I suppose it will give me something to do during the long warps in my Raven.

Perhaps the marketing department can introduce a PLEX for reload promotion?

Fear God and Thread Nought

Jeanne Hilanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#236 - 2013-11-08 19:28:05 UTC
So, HML got nerfed to **** and links make HAM and HML applied dps complete crap. And it's a wonder people prefer RLML? ****'s sake, can we have a PROPER LINK NERF now, before you start introducing new gimmicky no fun gameplay ideas?
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#237 - 2013-11-08 19:29:00 UTC
Do RHML-launched heavy missiles get the range bonus from Raven hulls, now that some of the "like other battleship launchers but better" concerns have been addressed by making rapid launchers significantly different?

Other than that, this sounds interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#238 - 2013-11-08 19:30:29 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
Do RHML-launched heavy missiles get the range bonus from Raven hulls, now that some of the "like other battleship launchers but better" concerns have been addressed by making rapid launchers significantly different?

Other than that, this sounds interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out.

Not in the last iteration, anyway. Just damage and rate of fire bonuses (although there was some question as to whether the Golem not receiving it was an oversight).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Huorek
Blood Stripe Resistance
#239 - 2013-11-08 19:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Huorek
If the sustained DPS is roughly half the burst with all launchers going, could the Cerb have a sustained DPS of 2/3s the burst after 20~ seconds if staggering the launchers on in groups of 2 every 20~ seconds? Meaning after 20~ seconds you will always have 4 launchers going that have 54% increased DPS. I'm sure my math is off, but it seems that you have the option to either burst DPS or ramp up to about the same DPS as previously.

Obviously a large change, but I see a lot of arguments about the loss of sustained DPS, when staggering the launchers could be a way around this.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#240 - 2013-11-08 19:31:07 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Both ships would have around 50 seconds of up time followed by 40 seconds of reload meaning that over extended engagements their true dps would be a bit more than half of the dps number above.


Less up time, less reload time would be better. Cut both by 50-75%. Then you'd have small clips that you could burn through in less than 20 seconds and you'd avoid the no fun zone that is long reload times since it'd be about 10-15 seconds.

Advantages
- Reload time is still long enough to be a disadvantage but not so long it's unbearable.
- You could even take the opportunity to switch damage types which adds more room for good players to maximize their damage.
- Overall DPS would be about the same and the frontloaded DPS wouldn't be so extreme.

Win/Win/WIn.


For this to be appropriately balanced, the "high dps window" needs to be long enough to bring down a typical target. Then the reload window needs to be long enough to make it un-ideal when sustained dps is important. I think your 20s attack, 10-15s reload is too short on both accounts, and the 50s attack, 40s relaod is just about ideal.