EVE General Discussion

No. I'm just wondering what you've dreamt up since you seemingly haven't read what I'm writing.

Your assumption is incorrect and there is nothing in what you quoted to base such an assumption on. In fact, had you tried to read what I actually wrote rather than start assuming things, you would have had a much easier time with all of this since you wouldn't have had to fight against your own strawman.

Incorrect. Not just in what you presume I think, but in thinking that this is a second opinion. Exactly why it would be counter-productive is explained in the part you skipped up until now.

Incorrect. It is still just a single opinion — not a second or third one — and that opinion has nothing to do with improving PvE. It has to do with not removing content for no good reason.

That doesn't make my point invalid; it just makes the players you're talking about egotistical. But it's nice to see that you finally included the bit that mattered, so I'll throw you a bone here.

My question to you is why should missions change to be what you want them to be just because you want them to be that way? What about the people who run missions because they don't offer any of that fluff and just offer a means to quick and easy ISK? “Improvement” is subjective, and you're carelessly forcing your subjective view down the throats of mission-runners everywhere. You want “better” (on some unknown scale) PvE. That's fine. Why do you have to change missions to achieve that goal?

You've also still missed the actual other point I'm making: that there is PvE out there that offers excitement, narrative, and some measure of progression. All of that is costly to produce, and yet those types of PvE are less popular. The effort-reward (from a game development perspective) seems a bit off there, so what makes you think it'll be worth it? Moreover, why must there be such a PvE monoculture that missions have to fit this mould as well? Again, why do they have to change? If you want different PvE (assuming it's actually worth-while), why not just ask for different PvE rather than fundamentally alter what people are already using — an alteration that may are quite likely to detest (cf. AI changes) since it would get in the way of their use-case (collect ISK)?

Missions do not need to be or do any of the things you listed. In fact, based on current player behaviour, many seem to prefer if they didn't. If you are unhappy with what missions have to offer, do something else. If none of the other options offer what you want, ask for something new. Ruining content for other players just to make it match your preferences is horribly thoughtless solution.

Now, if you go back and re-read my posts, you'll notice that none of this is anything new. You just skipped over it and started to assuming things the first time around…

Ship teircide, Null sov mechanics, POS mechanics.

Just those three things will take up the next 2 years at least. PVE might be bland but it is in better shape that these three.

Haha, now we're getting somewhere! Lets just ignore that you've STILL failed to outline why it would be counter-productive. Lets just assume you're embarrassed to admit you failed to explain that point, and all the fluff up until now is you just trying to get around that fact.

You're assuming i want to fundamentally change the nature of PvE, so that it is "what i want it to be". I'm just suggesting that it be improved to make it less boring. You keep using the word "change", i'm suggesting nothing of the sort. I'm not talking about changing everything, but building on what is already there and making it better for everyone that does PvE. If i could give you specific examples of methods to achieve these PvE improvements, then we'd be laughing! Unfortunately, that's going to require someone that dreams up some great ideas, to make PvE much more fun! That isn't going to be generated in the span of a few hours in a random thread. You seem to think any improvements would "ruin" those that run missions for the pure isk grind, but i don't see how that would be the case. Please, explain why you think making PvE less boring would "ruin" those only looking for the ISK-grind. In my opinion, PvE can be less boring and still be possible to grind if ISK, if that is all you're after.

Finally, once again, i'm not effected at all by these suggested changes, so stop assuming i have some sort of overriding self-interest. PvE is boring, and i don't tend to do it for that reason. That being said, i know people that don't have the time to play the other aspects of the game (nor would some of them want to). They just want to log in during their short span of free time to do what they enjoy. I see no reason at all to improve their gaming experience further. If you disagree, please explain why.

Haha, you've still totally failed to prove this. Proving my points is as easy as quoting what i've already written. When challenged to do the same, you just say "Already said it, you can't read" and other lame excuses. Totally owned you on this point.



This is good, you've explained that improvements to PvE would "ruin the content", and that it wouldn't be required to be improved anyway because other content already offers it. Unfortunately, i don't agree. PvE in EvE is boring as sin, and in my opinion would be much better off improved, and don't feel such an improvement would ruin it at all. Notice you've failed to explain why you feel it would be ruined, as i asked.



Again, i'm talking about improvements. We can't go changing the whole structure, that would mess everyone up! We're talking about ways to make PvE less boring. This doesn't effect those that don't care about the content or narrative story, they can still blast through for the ISK without a care in the world. But for those that play eve purely for PvE, improved content would go a long way to making it less boring, more exciting and a better experience.

LOL, this is madness. I challenge you to prove something, without doubt, you avoid and make excuses. I answer your questions directly, while you fail to answer any of mine. This just you Trolling, or are you just incapable of actually backing up your opinions? You claim I'm making assumptions, where I'm almost exactly repeating what your opinions are, as you state them, and you still can't back them up. You even contradict yourself! I feel like I'm head-butting a wall of complete stupidity here.

Well, not much we can do here, its almost like arguing with a child that refuses to listen or respond, who's completely convinced they are right without feeling any need to support their opinions. It must be really simple to be Tippa, living in a bubble of completely right. All those things that normal people need to support their arguments are totally unnecessary!

Regardless, for all of you that aren't Tippa, i still strongly feel PvE content could be alot less boring! Feel free to disagree, just please, explain why, and we can have a meaningful discussion on the subject.

Well, just answer the questions instead of inventing new things I never said, and maybe it'll end.

…often right after I've done just that, and refuse to take the hint that no matter how much you ignore it, the answer will not suddenly change.

So why dont' you listen or respond, exactly? Why do you refuse to actually read what I write and instead cling to your conviction that your assumptions have any basis in reality?

…and of course, had you actually read anything of what I've written, you'd know that no-one is disagreeing with this stance. But you just have to erect these massive straw men and go after some assumed position that no-one actually holds because responding to the one being presented is… what? Too hard? Requires reading? Not as easily dismissed as you'd like?

Stop assuming things. Start answering the questions. And I'm sure the bad man will soon go away…

…and you'll notice that what you're claiming that I'm saying and what I'm actually saying is not the same thing.

I'll try again, this time in short form and with numbers for for your convenience.

My questions to you are:

1) Why should missions change to be what you want them to be just because you want them to be that way?
2) Why do you want to remove content from those who run missions exactly because they don't offer any of that fluff and who just want the quick and easy ISK?
3) You want “better” (on some unknown scale) PvE, but why do you have to change missions to achieve that goal?
4) What makes you think that the kind of high-cost, single-shot content you're asking for will be worth it?
5) Why do missions have to fit this mould of yours as well?
6) If you want different PvE (assuming it's actually worth-while), why not just ask for different PvE?

Nope. You've only misrepresented them as talking about something completely different.

…because in doing it “almost exactly” you're introducing significant changes and omissions that makes it something rather different from what I'm actually saying — something the quotes you're using handily demonstrate.

Not really, no. I'm just not fond of pandering to people who wilfully ignore what I write and instead go on to invent something completely different to respond to. Even simplifying what I'm saying and giving you very obvious points to respond to, you fail to address anything of what I say. That is not me being terrible at expressing myself — it's you trying to avoid the subject.

So again:

1) Why should missions change to be what you want them to be just because you want them to be that way?
2) Why do you want to remove content from those who run missions exactly because they don't offer any of that fluff and who just want the quick and easy ISK?
3) You want “better” (on some unknown scale) PvE, but why do you have to change missions to achieve that goal?
4) What makes you think that the kind of high-cost, single-shot content you're asking for will be worth it?
5) Why do missions have to fit this mould of yours as well?
6) If you want different PvE (assuming it's actually worth-while), why not just ask for different PvE?

Ok.

1) Why should missions change to be what you want them to be just because you want them to be that way?
2) Why do you want to remove content from those who run missions exactly because they don't offer any of that fluff and who just want the quick and easy ISK?
3) You want “better” (on some unknown scale) PvE, but why do you have to change missions to achieve that goal?
4) What makes you think that the kind of high-cost, single-shot content you're asking for will be worth it?
5) Why do missions have to fit this mould of yours as well?
6) If you want different PvE (assuming it's actually worth-while), why not just ask for different PvE?

“Keep on” implies that what you're describing has already begun. Since you have yet to answer my questions, and since I've yet to ignore yours or make up any excuses, the expression you're looking for is “start”.

Actually, no, they don't. Of course, that just makes them baseless opinions that won't really convince anyone. But since I'm guessing that you are trying to convince people that your proposed changes are needed, why aren't you? You can start backing up your opinion by answering my questions.