Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ok:

Take the swarm ammo idea I have further up in this thread, and instead of loading the swarm ammo into RLMs, you load it into HMLs.

HMLs can now dual mode as either long range, low dps ships, but can reload to short range high burst damage, high application ammo. Increase the reload time to 60s.

HMLs now have role "1/2 dps ships until tackle shows up, then swap to anti tackle". This is different from the RLM role of being hilariously low dps against larger targets. Gangs could then either use RLM ships for anti tackle, or HML ships for slightly less anti tackle, but higher dps when shooting primaries. You get choices in gang composition, which is good. For rapid heavy launchers, im not really sure what to do, since cruises hit frigates just as well as heavy missiles (which is to say, very badly)

That would be interesting. Also HML are nwo weak enough that their fittings could be reduced a tiny bit. Combine both and we might have something.

I think the reload time is a bit long, but I agree the reload needs to be upped. Keep in mind a lot of players use rapid launchers on t2 hulls. If your going to do this is suggest you look at adding a reload time bonus of some sort to the t2 hulls or something of that nature that are meant to use missile. I mean don't give the bonus to a t2 hull that has 1 - 2 missile slots.

I think the reload time should be more around the 20 sec mark. In every engagement the pilot using the rapid missile will most likely be overloading them adding even more DPS, but putting the even closer to the heart stopping 40 sec reload time. 40 sec is way too much. With an ASB I see why you need the super long reload time, but in doing this to a ships damage projection your rendering it useless for 40 sec. It's almost like the guy they'll be fighting has a falcon with them during the 1st reload.

Summary: Reload is too long, reconsider around 20-25 sec mark. 40 sec too long to cripple a ship's damage.

Edit: Another thing to keep in mind. Missiles only do 1 type of damage. You may deter fights with this new reload rather than encourage them. Pilots looking to pick a fight want the right ammo. Taking a full 40 sec to reload may mean they miss out or choose not to engage.

"Reload time for both groups set to 40 seconds."

One of the 'strengths' of missiles is 100% selectable damage types. With a 40s reload time to only damage type I'll be selecting is whatever I already have loaded. (Ignoring the fact that more Caldari ships than not are locked into kinetic bonuses, which is terrible.)


EDIT: I say 'strengths' because selectable damage types is branded as a strength, but in practice less helpful than it sounds. In a heated engagement, what missile user has ever shot his target with all four damage types to see what did most damage and then use that? I use kinetic on my kinetic bonused ships, and thermal on my ships that don't have a damage type bonus because that tends to be the lowest average resist according to what I've read.

I still think its the wrong approach..

just add new launchers with lower fittings and maybe add new missiles:-

light torp launcher - light torps
lower fittings - lower expl rad/ higher exp velocity / higher missile velocity/range/ lower damage per volley

medium assault missile launcher - medium assault missiles
lower fittings - lower expl rad/ higher exp velocity /higher missile velocity/range/ lower damage per volley

nerf range on current torps and rename them heavy torps

nerf range on current HAMS

this would solve what Rapids are trying to do but in a more balanced way and makes much more sense /less OP than rapids will/are now.

and DELETE rapids....

This drastic of a concept change makes me even more convinced now that this idea was ill-conceived. There are much better ways to improve the choices that battleship pilots make with missiles but I think it's probably way too late to scrap these launchers and go back to the drawing board since CCP has already spent time on models & effects for them (remember folks, there's no turning back with Rubicon).

So now, they HAVE to work...somehow, thus the 40s reload time. I'm really not a fan of these huge-reload time mods because its bad game design. I say that because you're creating time where your player is doing nothing, which is a boring experience as a gamer. Its not the same with the defense mods since you can still fly around and shoot stuff even if you can't rep up but the same isn't true for weapons.

I already spend lots of time doing nothing in this game, don't make me do nothing in combat too. So maybe they're balanced, maybe they're not, but that's not the reason I won't use them.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have a set reload time of 40seconds, but can be effected by the rate of fire skills, bonus' and fittings?


Going to take a guess that you can't do this though in the time frame.

Hams are ok when you fire in BC and larger. They make painter be somewhat useful. The problem is nto on the hams, the problem is that the band of speed and signature where missiles do full damage reducing to no damage is TOO narrow

CCP Rise, well, how would this translate to the mass murder of smaller ships, ships that don't have much ehp to begin with?

Especially since you guys have still not introduced any effective ewar counter to missiles yet (still waiting for TD/TE/TC missile effects ). Currently turret boats can be TD'd to uselessness against small stuff, let alone the mechanics of tracking and getting under it. However, speed reduction on light missiles is not very effective and mwd sig blooms cancel it out, etc. Would a mechanic like this simply result in the obsolescence of small ships?

So, making these things burst dps monsters I don't think is a good idea unless you simultaneously introduce some the new TD module that affects missiles. Btw when you do, look at how TD's currently render a turret boat useless and how small turret boats in particular lack available slots to fit the TC and TE that don't even remedy the situation enough v a TD anyway (which is probably a good thing since we will not want new TC&TEs being stacked on a ship to make them total pwnzors of small stuff or ridiculous snipers).

So when you do put missile TDs in the game make sure that missile TC&TEs are similarly gimped as requiring multiple modules to even cancel the effects of one missile TD. Also consider that Amarr and Gallente ships have less mids available to even fit these like caldari and minmatar currently do to neutralize turret boats.

To address the midslot shortage, you could simultaneously overhaul TDs altogether to reduce their impact and increase the ship bonuses for the TD-specialized ships. Do this as well for damps. This would be keeping things in line with what you did for ECM boats and the ECM modules.

Anyway, what you propose worries me. If a missile boat like a RLML Caracal is already a terror to frigs. What would it become with this new mechanic? I like flying frigs. Frigs are not op. Tengus and Caracals are already doing well. Is what you propose going to result in missile boats online? Please be careful.

^this^

LOL