EVE General Discussion

Parasites? Trash?

Let's denigrate the defenders more so you can justify your acts. Let's carry on using your absurd vernacular:

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Ofc, people who frivolously wardec and grief others should be given the Congressional Award for Valor! These fly-guys are HEROES and we should be paying them for clearing the spaceways of miners and their ilk.

Eve is so boring otherwise, it's so badly constructed, the developers are rubbish and the only thing to do in this crappy game is "ruin it" for others for my own good. Missions, yeah you shoot stuff, but it's mind-numbingly boring and so tedious, I'd rather slit my wrists, it's so badly created by CCP they should hang their heads in SHAME!!

I hate mining so much I wanna stop anyone else from doing it! And why are you carrying freight from countless jumps to make a little profit when you can be like ME and just shoot and hunt other players all day??!"!

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Yeah, right...

BTW, a parasite is something that feeds off another; therefore any ganker is literally a parasite feeding off loot he's stolen from others.

Pretty much, yes.

Small carebear corps that prey on unknowing newbies are among the worst kind of griefers this game has to offer. The only thing that really beats them is the people who haven't even started a corp and instead sit in the newbie corps spreading the same misinformation.

Parasites is a good, if blunt, way of describing them. They infest these poor newbies with all kinds of ridiculous ideas about what the game is — most of which bear no resemblance to reality — and suck the will to explore the vastness of opportunities presented by the game right out of them. They're trash in the same way as any other griefer is trash: something befouling the place with their mere presence and making the environment much less pleasant than it otherwise could be. They are the one that teach new players that not playing is a good option; they're the ones that make the newbies quit because they impose such ridiculous restrictions on what the newbies are “allowed” to do.

Would you like to make a bet on where the whole “you need X amount of SP before you do Y” fable comes from — corps that take their newbies out to do things or corps that don't? The same goes for the “can't catch up” myth or the “highsec is safe” nonsense or the myriad of cargo-cult approaches to game mechanics that float around. All of them only ever do one thing: cripple new players' ability to actually learn the game and play it well. If they quit with that kind of false education, that's hardly a surprise…

…but it is not due to any mechanic or design choice, but because of those griefers who insist on lying to them at every turn.

Good thing that no-one said they should.

Ah, you have stated my case precisely! YOU were ready to leave, we now know how wonderful you were that you improved, etc, and stayed, and how wrong things were before in a poor noob corp.

The point is, CCP do care about potential lost revenue. This isn't a hobby... it's a business. If Eve does not attract enough people it will go under and you and all the hard-core bandits will have to find another PVP outlet.

Now follow this reasoning through a second: many people will not be as diligent nor dedicated enough to get over that initial introduction to the harshness of Eve. Must we water-down Eve just for them and possibly spoil the thrill and danger that gives Eve that edge other games don't have: NO!

But there is a middle ground. You can cater for the new players whom CCP want to play Eve to a better degree and not upset many of the patrons who like all the warring aspects that we have.

A modest increase in wardec costs from 50m to 100m is not going to change the game drastically. But it will reduce the number of frivolous wardecs people can just toss around like confetti. I still don't see why so many of you object to that increase!?!

CCP could introduce other measures, I'm just suggesting one.

We need to encourage those people who would otherwise leave, to stay, and still retain the essence that is Eve. Instead of playing the game with 25,000, imagine playing Eve with a MILLION online players!

Ban anyone who has a different opinion to you.
Ban anyone who wants to look at any improvements which would increase the number of subscribers Eve has.

Your business acumen is non-existent!

No. Just the ones that ruin the gameplay of newbies.

FYI -- he's a Noobcorp character. Anything he says about the "problem" with wardecs is invalid by default.

Think I'm drunk enough to be posting in GD, not sure. Part of what's drawn me to EVE over the years, and kept me coming back was it's inherent danger. nowhere is completely safe, and I honestly love this aspect to the game. I played Earth & Beyond before EVE, at least til it went **** up... but even though it was a great deal of fun, the risk factor to the game was kind of lacking. Freelancer also, loved it, but there were mechanical issues I had with it I just could never reconcile. With EVE I get something neither of those games could actually deliver... real adrenaline, real potential for loss.

With the changes over the years to hisec it's become a 'fairly' safe place to go about your business, but not always. If you take stupid risks, if you **** someone off, you can suddenly find yourself on the receiving end of some nastiness... and this is how it should be. Without the wardec mechanic in place it would be too safe IMO, as all you would have to worry about is suicide gankers popping you for their various reasons.

While I, like many carebears, engage in primarily pve activities, I recognize that the cornerstone of EVE is pvp and always has been. I play the way I play, but I also don't for a moment expect others to do so as well. Wardecs are an important part of the game as they allow a means for hi sec corps to struggle for ascendancy within the systems they operate. Yes, some do it for lulz, but others do it for business means such as driving out the competition, or in the case of a few... for their own profit. I think that characters such as Cannibal Kane are just as much businessmen as any other industrial or mining corps out there. Their business is bloody murder instead of staring at asteroids til they start talking to you.

By decrying the system of wars in place you effectively are trying to say that the way of life of the mercenary, the terrorist, the aggressively territorial industrialists with teeth are invalid. I couldn't disagree more. If anything needs to be changed it's how NPC corporations are handled in respect to wars and older players... personally I would rather see the tax rate on NPC corps increased dramatically, or that players with 5 million sp or more be booted from them completely and flagged as "unemployed" and charged a 50% vagrancy tax by CONCORD until they find a proper corporation. But... I'm kind of an ass that way. Opinions are ubiquitous, tho, we all have one.

I think people get a little wrapped up in role playing and cant quite realise that the mechanics of the game are not the same as the politics, one can only be rationally discussed without the other. As it stands there is a system that allows 13 people to 'win' a war against 13,000 without even taking a single loss. That is the sort of information that a new player can read by looking through the history's of the large alliances and it doesn't really tally with the idea of the universe being a harsh place full of risk. In fact they look through most corps history and discover that war seems to more often than not lead to nothing happening - that information wont get anyone's juices flowing. Why should that nonsense be preserved, the system fails to provide war so is a clear candidate for improvement.

One side of the debate seems determined to keep the system as is, as if some bastion of perfection, the other would like it to have some increased risk for the aggressor. Eve shouldn't have a system that protects someone from any consequence if they do something so stupid as to outnumber themselves more than a thousand to one - the system should insure that such idiocy can result in some form of penalty.

The systems of Eve are not meant to be set in stone, the initial implementations are as simplistic as they had to be, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be expanded upon and fleshed out as and when improved technology allows it. War is a very basic system as it stands and a highly ineffective means of providing pvp. It simply would not hurt to find ways of improving it so its something people can look forward to, rather than the current 'make sure the aggressor has an advantage or they'll run away' rhetoric that really doesn't make sense in a war.

Wars dont make players leave. What makes players leave are waste of resources on crappy FPS and CCP's lack of response to issues that favor certain player groups who benefit and better games.

…and also not something anyone has done.

Not really, no. They're just playing the PvP game that is EVE. They are not sucking the life out of other players or out of the game itself.

Nothing, if they accept the risks and responsibilities that comes with doing so.

Why? It's not a restriction; it doesn't help newbies in any way; it only protects those who should by all rights fail because they aren't prepared for the challenge ahead. It also keeps fledgling corps from improving and adjusting to the environment of EVE, thereby making newcomers less prepared for the rest of EVE.