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Where is this going?

First post
Author
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#1 - 2013-11-08 09:28:40 UTC
I couldn't participate in yesterday's event, but after reading how did it turn out...

Seriously, I wouldn't start hating Empires for leading me into a trap lol. I'd rather get mad against CCP's idea of a live event, and general many-people events (I don't like massed fleets with nothing defined to do, such as the Deathrace). Running around, get ganked by people who just happened to live there, and losing lots of stuff pointlessly? I might have a different concept of the game than others, but wasting my hard-earned iskies that way is not equal to having fun playing a game to me.

I love CCP's work, but to be sincere, that wasn't a wise step. It just feels like a very poor attemp at pointing players on the new direction they're planning for the game. Why should I hate my own people (Minmatar) and those who I like for how they are (Gallente, SoE, etc.)? I'd rather try to help those who are not capsuleers, even when I'm not just running missions for them (and I don't go FW because of standings). Hell, I don't even hate pirate factions for what they do, theyr'e just a matter of business to me and wouldn't mind running some missions for them.

Also, I expected something much more interesting about a "great fleet against and unknown enemy " event. I expected a new feature involving the most misterious parts of the lore, such as Sleeper drones finally raiding New Eden with the aid of their uplifted Rogue Drones, or that 5th race that was announced at summer's YouTube devblog, or something else. But a raid on our old pirate assets? It smelled like a cheap way of getting rid of pirate factions now that we're (supposed to be) hating Empires and leaving them, as they didn't fit that well on the new lore.

I might ont be understanding something about this new direction (I hope it's the case), but why should I be forced into a full PVP play-style (something Rubicon is hinting)? Isn't this a sandbox? A game you can play as you want to? I am really going to get kicked into a no-sec area surrounded by killmail-hungry players? Why should I be forced into that?

I know this game is mostly PVP oriented. I know greater rewards are at lowsec, nullsec and WH-space. I do am, mostly, a highsec carebear. But I want to do more things. I want to try out Incursions. I want to live on WH-space rather on just raiding it. I'd liketo take my Thrasher and get into lowsec for free PVP. But if this is a sandbox, then I think everyone should be able to do what they want as it has always been. I'm not saying PVP should be nerfed in advantage of PVE or mining, that would be just stupid and would also force someone into doing something they don't like, but neither should be forcing everyone into PVP. I play this game as I like it; nullsec PVPeers do too, and we all should be able to continue to do what we like, even through heavy lore changes.

There, I said it *breaths*. What do you think about where is this going?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2013-11-08 09:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
This is and always has been a PVP game, you are free to do whatever you want but so is everyone else.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#3 - 2013-11-08 09:38:24 UTC
I thought, "sounds interesting, maybe i should give it a go"

Now I'm thankful i couldn't be bothered!

Sounds like a pretty shameful performance from CCP, and i look forward to hearing something from them regarding it.
(Or, with the current trend, not hearing anything at all.)

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Prince Sanguine
#4 - 2013-11-08 09:39:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
This is and always has been a PVP game, you are free to do whatever you want but so is everyone else.


That. Grr fellow blues.

Everytime you read this you are required to send 100 million isk directly to me.

Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#5 - 2013-11-08 09:42:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
This is and always has been a PVP game, you are free to do whatever you want but so is everyone else.



Nail. Head.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-11-08 09:45:50 UTC
Illogical.

It's realistic that you can get killed anywhere and everywhere.
If you want to do things but can't actually do them,
then that's how it is.

EvE is honest. You CAN be successfull,
but there's no guarantee for it.

In other games, everybody is a fake hero. (see related carebear whining about getting blown up)
In EvE, everybody is a worthless slave to the economy.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-11-08 09:47:52 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
I thought, "sounds interesting, maybe i should give it a go"

Now I'm thankful i couldn't be bothered!

Sounds like a pretty shameful performance from CCP, and i look forward to hearing something from them regarding it.
(Or, with the current trend, not hearing anything at all.)


By all accounts it wasn't CCP that performed shamefully but v0v, what Baltec says is correct.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-11-08 09:51:03 UTC
"I went into 0.0 where there is a major war going on and I got shot at and this is a shameful performance on CCP's part no one told me this could happen. Everyone knows that being in a fleet demands no more than being a mindless F1 monkey with no more skill or attention involved so it certainly couldn't have been me who was responsible!

Grrrr CCP!

(Also goons)"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-11-08 09:52:34 UTC
Also some ellipses... and my analysis as a senior game developer coder programmer real business person is that everyone will leave EVE immediately because I lost my terribly fit Raven

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#10 - 2013-11-08 09:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
Xen Solarus wrote:
(Or, with the current trend, not hearing anything at all.)


Yeah, what's up with that. Why even have "communication liaisons" if they're not communicating?
Navigator apearently gone since a month, Falcon being funny and selectively helpful, ISD's just locking threads and a deafening silence where once was a CSM.
edit:
lol, well almost silence.
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#11 - 2013-11-08 09:55:04 UTC
Before the event even had a chance of beggining,the tidi was horrible,thank God i didnt bother pushing forward else i would have wasted 2 hours getting there and for nothing.

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !

Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#12 - 2013-11-08 09:59:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
I thought, "sounds interesting, maybe i should give it a go"

Now I'm thankful i couldn't be bothered!

Sounds like a pretty shameful performance from CCP, and i look forward to hearing something from them regarding it.
(Or, with the current trend, not hearing anything at all.)


By all accounts it wasn't CCP that performed shamefully but v0v, what Baltec says is correct.


You do sound absurd when you are angry. It was CCP's failure to cater for a significant portion of their customer base (high-sec) while providing "just another Thursday night" (quite by goons) for 0.0 players. You are very naive if you think that most of those carebears who got slaughtered had any idea that it's going to be battle in 0.0. You are also very naive if you think that net outcome (satisfaction minus dissatisfaction, subs gained minus subs lost) is positive.

And no, I didn't lose anything in the event, I turned around right before Doril gate.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-11-08 10:03:03 UTC
What on earth makes you think I'm angry, Mr serious real business analysis person?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#14 - 2013-11-08 10:04:20 UTC
Quote:
It was CCP's failure to cater for a significant portion of their customer base (high-sec) while providing "just another Thursday night" (quite by goons) for 0.0 players.


So why do carebears need to be catered to? I don't really recall anything in the event announcement suggesting such catering, either. False expectations, maybe?

Quote:
You are very naive if you think that most of those carebears who got slaughtered had any idea that it's going to be battle in 0.0.


... are you ****ing me? For real? You must be kidding, right?

Quote:
You are also very naive if you think that net outcome (satisfaction minus dissatisfaction, subs gained minus subs lost) is positive.


Oh, it's positive alright. Beyond that, it was funnier than hell, and I wasn't even involved.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#15 - 2013-11-08 10:08:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
stuff


Let me rephrase myself - word 'cater' probably wasn't used well by me - the event ran by CCP was perceived very negatively by high-sec players, and it was just another slugfest for 0.0 guys. In total, it's negative outcome. How can you argue with that.

And no, I am not kidding that most of high-sec carebears had no clue that they are going to nullsec. Just read around. Many were surprised when they were told to jump even to low-sec. And look at the fits in killboards, average carebear would not bring PVE fit BS into 0.0.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-11-08 10:11:16 UTC
lol had no idea it was in null, now i see what all the shrieking is about.

forums.  serious business.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#17 - 2013-11-08 10:20:34 UTC
Jack Mayhem wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
stuff


Let me rephrase myself - word 'cater' probably wasn't used well by me - the event ran by CCP was perceived very negatively by high-sec players, and it was just another slugfest for 0.0 guys. In total, it's negative outcome. How can you argue with that.

And no, I am not kidding that most of high-sec carebears had no clue that they are going to nullsec. Just read around. Many were surprised when they were told to jump even to low-sec. And look at the fits in killboards, average carebear would not bring PVE fit BS into 0.0.


Fair enough, "cater" was a poor choice of words. Now, on to the meat of the issue.

So, as to the perception. It wasn't really "just another fight" for the nullsec guys. Yeah, they used their same tactics(that being, the fleet combat tactics long since proven to work), but do you actually talk to any of those people? Know any of them personally?

This was fun for them. Term I heard most was "clusterf***", it was chaotic in a way that nullsec fights are very often not. They weren't ambivalent, this was genuinely an endearing event.

Now, as to the highsec crowd. Yeah, I've read around. Out of the 3-4 thousand estimated deaths yesterday, I see what? Between 40 and 60 complaints? Half of them from people about being left out or who didn't go and are arguing about "the principle, dammit!".

Compared to SomerGate or ToSGate, I barely feel a ripple of dissatisfaction.

Yeah, they were butchered. It was a disorganized CF.

But think about it in comparison to Caldari Prime, for example. That had a hard cap of 1600 people being permitted to get involved. I only managed to get in and do some ninja salvaging after a solid hour of sitting on that gate waiting to get in.

This even had 3 times that many people involved. Yeah, it blew up. Thus far, that's a trend among live events.

It could have been less of a CF if dev tools had been used to "bridge" people into the real staging area for the event. Idk how that got overlooked. Kinda seemed to me like it was thrown together on the fly. But they are trying.

Will some carebears complain? Probably. But, in fairness, you have to admit that you lot complain a lot anyway. By and large, you'll get over it. Very few people will quit on the eve (pun intended) of a new expansion. With a bunch of ship reworks, and new stuff to find, steal, make, and barter? I think they'll stay.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-11-08 10:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Nobody's talking about Somerblink anymore. Big smile

CCP, I see what you did there.
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#19 - 2013-11-08 10:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Mayhem
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
stuff 2


FYI - I am not high-sec player, have been in all high-sec, low-sec and 0.0, so I understand all points of view.

Why couldn't they make Caldari Prime event copy, just split into e.g. 6 locations (2 high-sec, 2 low-sec, 2 NPC 0.0)? Would be much better than this failure.

Anyway, there is already much written about what went wrong, i.e. good analytical read by one of smarter CSM reps (no you don't qualify Malcanis, don't worry).


EDIT: I really don't care about high-sec missioners if they lost a ship. I care about EVE being successful, and for that they need playerbase. This event alienated a portion of their playerbase INSTEAD of being great opportunity to advertise the game and create content. Look at Twitch broadcasts - at the peak EVE was top 10 with some 4-5k viewers; you don't see that every day. However it dropped oh so quickly once first wave of clueless carebears were wiped out.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#20 - 2013-11-08 10:39:49 UTC
How there was lack of comunications? Was obvious that the event was based on some massive battle in null, even to me that never follow live events and barely logging these days. There was an announcement on the launcher, asking for capsuleer to defend NPC pirate factions against capsuleers sent from empire.

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