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Plex for 2 skills!

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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#41 - 2013-11-07 19:31:52 UTC
Quote:
In this situation then, the people who suggested these are also begging for free SP.

The difference with the character bazaar is that someone else already paid for that SP and they're selling it to you for a price they're happy with. You're not buying a character from CCP.

Quote:
fundamentally there is no difference between training two characters at the same time versus one at twice the speed which in turn would indeed provide less utility as the person who choses to train up a second account.

There's a huge difference.

Oh god.
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#42 - 2013-11-07 19:37:34 UTC
Oh hey look, a troll thread being trolly.

And everyone bites.


OP is either a bad troll or stupid. Please stop feeding him and allow this thread to die. I have proper trolling to do.
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-11-07 19:41:06 UTC
Quote:
...means training a character the same as everyone else, which means it does not skip any mechanics.


...and still, a character that you as a player had skipped over training for.

Quote:
No. You're training at the same speed as everyone else. You're just doing it on two characters. This is very different from training at twice the speed as everyone else since it does not allow you to reach any given ability any faster — at best, it allows you to reach it at the same speed as everyone else, but twice.

...and completely misunderstood what they do in terms of adding ability or utility to your character (hint: none whatsoever

How does being twice as good as you otherwise should be offer less utility? You're making very little sense here.


I'm making plenty of sense, have two of the same in the same amount of time offers less utility than one of the same. And actually buying a character does add more utility to your current character.

-Isk/h
-Boosts
-RR support
-etc

Quote:
The harm is that your suggestion is completely unlike the pre-existing means of creating characters in that you want to be able to pay to skip over the mechanic that regulates the speed of that creation. You know this full well, or you would be satisfied with the existing methods since “there is no difference”. Your suggestion serves only one purpose: to introduce a means to avoid mechanics you don't like by paying for them. This is an awful and game-breaking purpose.

So, really, take your pick: either you know full well the ridiculous P2W-like advantage this will give and the harm that means, or you honestly believe that there is no difference, which means the harm is that you add something that you must also believe is completely pointless. Either way, there's absolutely no reason for (and lots of reasons again) implementing anything of the kind.


This isn't any more of a P2W advantage than purchasing plex for isk, using isk for plex, and plex to train a second character. As stated paying for those are a bigger advantage than twice the character training speed. As I stated earlier, SP has nothing to do with your advantages in game. You are limited for much much more than just SP to "win" in this game.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2013-11-07 19:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
NFain wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
NFain wrote:
I'm not saying that it isn't a terrible and a die in a fire idea.]


I am and most everyone else in this thread is telling you that this is a bad idea. Have not seen the diaf thing yet, but I feel it coming.

NFain wrote:
It is however implemented, we can't fight it, so join it, enjoy it, and make it better. Twisted


I now need a shower.

Bio-mas your character, un-install eve and go outside.


I do not, plex sales are through the roof! But this however isn't the topic of conversation.

I spend the majority of my time outside thank you very much.

Back on topic, some people do not see a problem with this, other people do, I'm interested in hearing everyone's why and why nots.

It's simply a theoretical idea based on existing mechanics that we already have implemented.


Basically, it just comes down to something very simple.

A lot of us has invested a lot of time in this crappy game, and a lot of us has left because of the dumbing down of this once cool game.

Eve had this unique quality about it that no tother game had, and no other game I know has currently. And it is just frustrating and sad to watch people not happy with the idea that this one is different and has to **** with it until it is like all the other crap out there.

And to all the retards claiming the agressive play, ganking and war decs are chasing people away...the dumbing down of Eve has done much more damage to the player base than any other issue.

So yeah, there is an issue with it, so gtfo my lawn.
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2013-11-07 19:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyt Thrace
To OP,

NO!

but I will +1 the following idea

PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills.

You do NOT get reimbursed for skill points or cost of skill books.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2013-11-07 19:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
NFain wrote:
...and still, a character that you as a player had skipped over training for.
Nope. No training was skipped. If there were, there'd be no character for you to buy.

Quote:
I'm making plenty of sense, have two of the same in the same amount of time offers less utility than one of the same.
…but that's not what you're asking for. You're asking for twice the ability in the same time rather than the same ability, and you're saying that twice the ability is less, somehow. This does not make any sense.

Quote:
And actually buying a character does add more utility to your current character.

-Isk/h
-Boosts
-RR support
Those are the utility of the second character yes. Your current one is the same as always — no added utility (beyond what you've trained at normal speed).

Quote:
This isn't any more of a P2W advantage than purchasing plex for isk, using isk for plex, and plex to train a second character.
…except that, unlike those, you pay to skip game mechanics which means it's hellalot more P2W than anything currently in the game. It has nothing to do with SP or what you can do with them — it has to do with uneven application of game mechanics, which is a far bigger problem.

So again, if you want to train twice as fast, why aren't you asking CCP to make you train twice as fast? Why do you have to invent some silly pay-to-whatever scheme to make it so?
ShiroOokami
MoonShadows Incorporated
#47 - 2013-11-07 19:50:02 UTC
Nfain, I have to ask.

What is the advantage of your idea over the current mechanics?

Why do we need it?
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-11-07 19:51:10 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
NFain wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
NFain wrote:
I'm not saying that it isn't a terrible and a die in a fire idea.]


I am and most everyone else in this thread is telling you that this is a bad idea. Have not seen the diaf thing yet, but I feel it coming.

NFain wrote:
It is however implemented, we can't fight it, so join it, enjoy it, and make it better. Twisted


I now need a shower.

Bio-mas your character, un-install eve and go outside.


I do not, plex sales are through the roof! But this however isn't the topic of conversation.

I spend the majority of my time outside thank you very much.

Back on topic, some people do not see a problem with this, other people do, I'm interested in hearing everyone's why and why nots.

It's simply a theoretical idea based on existing mechanics that we already have implemented.


Basically, it just comes down to something very simple.

A lot of us has invested a lot of time in this crappy game, and a lot of us has left because of the dumbing down of this once cool game.

Eve had this unique quality about it that no tother game had, and no other game I know has currently. And it is just frustrating and sad to watch people not happy with the idea that this one is different and has to **** with it until it is like all the other crap out there.

And to all the retards claiming the agressive play, ganking and war decs are chasing people away...the dumbing down of Eve has done much more damage to the player base than any other issue.

So yeah, there is an issue with it, so gtfo my lawn.


I feel you my friend, I've played since 04 and I loved the game and the community more pre revelations. Our game is dead my friend, might as well continue to go down with the sinking ship or hop off. I choose to continue to go down with the sinking ship and make it easier for me to enjoy it while I still can.

Eve is indeed different, but like I said, the real players are dead and long gone. Why? because Eve itself made the real, and what is left of Eve is a bunch of fabricated players that adhere to the game around them that all these fabricated players have created versus the game adhering to them.
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-11-07 19:53:03 UTC
ShiroOokami wrote:
Nfain, I have to ask.

What is the advantage of your idea over the current mechanics?

Why do we need it?


Why did we need character trading, dual character training, neural remaps, and etc? Same concept, different service.
To Be Me
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-11-07 19:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: To Be Me
Why not just, PLEX FOR ANY non capital LEVEL V ?

They could also have a list of prices like:

Non capital ships:

1x plex = 1 skill level V
2x plexes = 3 skills level V
3x plexes = 5 skills level V

Capitals:

1x plex = 1 skill level IV
2x plexes = 2 skills level IV or 1 skill level V
3x plexes = 1 skill level V + 3 skills level IV or 2 skills level V

thumbs up if you like :))))
ShiroOokami
MoonShadows Incorporated
#51 - 2013-11-07 19:56:10 UTC
NFain wrote:
ShiroOokami wrote:
Nfain, I have to ask.

What is the advantage of your idea over the current mechanics?

Why do we need it?


Why did we need character trading, dual character training, neural remaps, and etc? Same concept, different service.


Then why add a concept into the game in a different form when we already have it?
Tiffany Kautsuo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-11-07 19:57:12 UTC
I think what tip is trying to say is that no matter if you bought that blops character. At some stage, somewhere, someone had to train all those skills, this is the crux of the multiple training queues,
No matter what, all skills will have to be trained and you can't artificially accelerate the process. Buying a character differs from enhanced rates of learning because another person has trained all skills at the normal rate, just as everyone else in the game.

The introduction of training two separate skills at once would create the imbalance of having the skills available to the same character where as the multiple skill queues are on different characters. Because as it stands there's nothing different between me having two accounts and training them on the different accounts and having two characters on one account and training them. (except I can't log them both on in the latter situation)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#53 - 2013-11-07 19:57:40 UTC
NFain wrote:
Why did we need character trading, dual character training, neural remaps, and etc? Same concept, different service.

Training a second character (and training a character at all) is a vastly different concept than letting people pay for the benefit of training twice as fast.

Neural remaps were needed to fix the monoculture that races and bloodlines had come to generate and the blind-choice problem that new players faced when creating ruining their first character. It too is a vastly different concept from paying for the benefit of double-speed training.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#54 - 2013-11-07 19:57:45 UTC
Fabricated players wouldn't understand because all you do is adhere to the game you created omg.

Oh god.
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-11-07 19:59:08 UTC
Quote:
Nope. No training was skipped. If there were, there'd be no character for you to buy.


...completely missing the idea.

Quote:
...but that's not what you're asking for. You're asking for twice the ability in the same time rather than the same ability, and you're saying that twice the ability is less, somehow. This does not make any sense.


but this is what is being argued. last time a checked, falcon alt OP.

Quote:
Those are the utility of the second character yes. Your current one is the same as always — no added utility (beyond what you've trained at normal speed).


As a character itself, yes the Utility is no different, in the case of the current mechanics, a second characters Utility adds a far greater utility to the first character than if you were to train it a twice the speed (you still can only use one ship at one time per character)

Quote:
…except that, unlike those, you pay to skip game mechanics which means it's hellalot more P2W than anything currently in the game. It has nothing to do with SP or what you can do with them — it has to do with uneven application of game mechanics, which is a far bigger problem.

So again, if you want to train twice as fast, why aren't you asking CCP to make you train twice as fast? Why do you have to invent some silly pay-to-whatever scheme to make it so?


People do skip game mechanics when they purchase a plex for isk (in the same way they do when they purchase a character).
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-11-07 20:00:40 UTC
Tiffany Kautsuo wrote:
I think what tip is trying to say is that no matter if you bought that blops character. At some stage, somewhere, someone had to train all those skills, this is the crux of the multiple training queues,
No matter what, all skills will have to be trained and you can't artificially accelerate the process. Buying a character differs from enhanced rates of learning because another person has trained all skills at the normal rate, just as everyone else in the game.

The introduction of training two separate skills at once would create the imbalance of having the skills available to the same character where as the multiple skill queues are on different characters. Because as it stands there's nothing different between me having two accounts and training them on the different accounts and having two characters on one account and training them. (except I can't log them both on in the latter situation)


No I completely understand what she is saying on every level, just the ideas to obtain them are no different than what I am suggesting.
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-11-07 20:03:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
NFain wrote:
Why did we need character trading, dual character training, neural remaps, and etc? Same concept, different service.

Training a second character (and training a character at all) is a vastly different concept than letting people pay for the benefit of training twice as fast.

Neural remaps were needed to fix the monoculture that races and bloodlines had come to generate and the blind-choice problem that new players faced when creating ruining their first character. It too is a vastly different concept from paying for the benefit of double-speed training.


mehh, pretty sure everyone got the reset button on attributes when they redid the bloodlines to match everyone else's. And the neural remap was an idea generated from early feedback to improve skill training time.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2013-11-07 20:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
NFain wrote:
...completely missing the idea.
No, I understood your idea perfectly. You, however, do not… well, that, or you don't understand the game.

Quote:
but this is what is being argued.
No. You just think it is because you don't understand the mechanics involved.

Quote:
As a character itself, yes the Utility is no different,
…so we come back to the question you refuse to answer: how does having twice the ability constitute less utility?

Quote:
People do skip game mechanics when they purchase a plex for isk (in the same way they do when they purchase a character).
It is very much like buying a character, yes, but only in the sense that no mechanics are actually being skipped. The characters are built the same way as every other character in the game; the PLEX is bought the same way as every other kind of subscription in the game; the ISK is created the same way as all the other ISK in the game.

All of them are therefore completely unlike your proposal of being able to skip mechanics by paying for it.

Quote:
mehh, pretty sure everyone got the reset button on attributes when they redid the bloodlines to match everyone else's. And the neural remap was an idea generated from early feedback to improve skill training time.
Nope. Everyone got the same reset when bloodlines were functionally removed, and the need for remaps — what you were asking about — has nothing to do with the sources of the idea.

By the way, if you want to train twice as fast, why aren't you asking CCP to make you train twice as fast? Why do you have to invent some silly pay-to-whatever scheme to make it so?
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#59 - 2013-11-07 20:10:27 UTC
Wait, I must be going mad. Is it being suggested that EVE is not pay-to-win in its current form?

Bacon makes us stronger
To Be Me
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-11-07 20:28:34 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
Wait, I must be going mad. Is it being suggested that EVE is not pay-to-win in its current form?


i know right? people believe in such weird things nowadays..

thumbs up if you like :))))