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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#181 - 2013-11-07 15:32:20 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
There is a middle-ground between the sublime and the ridiculous and it's up to CCP to find the right level. Put a limit on number of wardecs at any given time for example, or make them more expensive for each additional one. That won't put small PVP corps out-of-business.

That was EXACTLY how wars were like before the last few expansions changed the system. And you know what? The war-limit and cost increase mechanics were brought into the game many years ago as a response to the exact same problem we have today: constant and unyielding griefing by these uncouth mongoloids. So CCP added those limits and cost increases, and then they did whatever the hell it is they did recently that made wars "more expensive" (yeah right), and the fact of the matter is that these changes are simply not enough for us normal, rational players. We don't need CCP to keep playing around with puny half-measures; we need CCP to go ALL THE WAY and remove grief-enabling mechanics from the game entirely, because nothing else will satisfy us, and allow us to play the game we expected to play when we signed up for it. We've been on the receiving end of this incompetence long enough, and we will fight TO OUR LAST BREATHS in order to secure our law-given right to not have to fight other players unless we want to.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#182 - 2013-11-07 15:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Mythrandier wrote:

Aren’t you ignoring the new bros who posted above stating that wardecs were a fresh breath of air to their dull PvE worlds? Yes, yes you are.


Some players who get wardecced when they are new enjoy the experience.
Therefore, all new players who get wardecced enjoy the experience.

Can you see the fallacy in that? While I appreciate a cool story as much as anyone, a couple guys taken as a sample from a pool that cannot, by definition, include the players who left because they did NOT enjoy being ***raped as noobs just doesn't carry any more weight than a limited sample, taken from a limited pool, should. Sorry, but your position is just another fallacy.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#183 - 2013-11-07 15:36:15 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:

...what is ridiculous is that said large corps could easily (just via having numbers) kick the crap out of the smaller guys, yet they choose to not do that, but instead come to the forums and scream for nerfs… its beyond belief.



And you are not screaming on the forums here??!!



Please point to single post of mine asking for a nerf. I did specify asking for nerfs.

Also, do I really come across as screaming?! Always considered myself a relatively calm person...

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#184 - 2013-11-07 15:40:26 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:


Some people who get wardecced when they are new enjoy the experience.
Therefore, all new people who get wardecced enjoy the experience.

Can you see the fallacy in that? While I appreciate a cool story as much as anyone, a couple guys taken as a sample from a pool that cannot, by definition, include the players who left because they did NOT enjoy being ***raped as noobs just doesn't carry any more weight than a limited sample should. Sorry, but your position is just another fallacy.



Hmm, I re read my post, but I cant see where I stated that "all new people who get wardecced enjoyed the experience"
You appear to by trying to create yet another strawman here.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#185 - 2013-11-07 15:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Mythrandier wrote:

Hmm, I re read my post, but I cant see where I stated that "all new people who get wardecced enjoyed the experience"
You appear to by trying to create yet another strawman here.


Distilling an argument to its essence is not a strawman fallacy. Your sample is too small to be meaningful. Fact. Also, players who may have had a very different experience are excluded, because they unsubbed, and have no forum access. Therefore, the sample was taken from an incomplete pool that should include all players who were wardecced as noobs, but does not. You asked why I don't give much weight to the newbro posts. That is why.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2013-11-07 15:54:35 UTC
Get out of hi-sec and this wardec thing becomes little more then an inconvenience that can easily be solved by invoking the fine services of corps such as Push Industries and RF freight.

If you really want to mine in peace go make a deal with some low-sec dwellers, there are plenty of groups looking to have a bunch of indy guys under their wing. Or go to 0.0, no lack of space or lack of roids, or lack of a market for that matter. Rent or sov both work equally well, up to personal preference really. You will also find that mining out there is WAY more profitable.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#187 - 2013-11-07 16:06:26 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:

14th Wikipedia link of the conversation.

You are doing your high-school debating team proud. Now how about discussing the points rather than just picking the most appropriate canned arguement you can find to allow yourself to dismiss the opposing view without actually having to justify your stance? On the bright side, you would have a promising future in politics!
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#188 - 2013-11-07 16:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
saw something from a program i started watching recently. "calm sea do not make a good sailor" maybe dropping them in as shark bait isnt such a good idea.
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#189 - 2013-11-07 16:11:07 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:


... If war decs were doubled in cost, would it "kill wardeccing for small corps?" What if it was tripled? What if it merely started at the same level but scaled up much more quickly as more corps are decced? Would any of this "kill" small corp wardeccing?

...how many MMOs have you played where people actually make the complaint that the entirety of the game's pve is terrible, while still actively playing said game?

Again, you're taking an "all or nothing" stance, which is just another way to frame the same old false dilemma. "You must choose between the current wardec system or PVE only!" Hogwash. Increasing the costs of wardecs does not equal turning Eve into a PVE-only game. Of course no one wants to kill PVP, so why go on a rant about how bad PVE is? How is that relevant? No one is suggesting that we remove the "fear of loss". There will still be wardecs.


You made some good points there. I think it's a bit insulting to the developers to say that the PVE is boring, on the contrary, for me it's what makes me want to play Eve the most.

The PVP side is the same as with any online game IMO, but without the safeguards as others which makes Eve more special.

I certainly don't want it taken away, but adapted to allow new players to start up their own corps without getting chased out by trivial griefers.

An increasing cost for multiple wardecs would be a good game balancer.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#190 - 2013-11-07 16:17:21 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:

Hmm, I re read my post, but I cant see where I stated that "all new people who get wardecced enjoyed the experience"
You appear to by trying to create yet another strawman here.


Distilling an argument to its essence is not a strawman fallacy. Your sample is too small to be meaningful. Fact. Also, players who may have had a very different experience are excluded, because they unsubbed, and have no forum access. Therefore, the sample was taken from an incomplete pool that should include all players who were wardecced as noobs, but does not. You asked why I don't give much weight to the newbro posts. That is why.



Right.

So, lets get on with the distilling... We should ignore the people saying wardecs are good and make the game more fun for them, while we should listen to the whiners because... they agree with you?

OKAY THEN.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-11-07 16:20:38 UTC
WTB Extra tank for highsec carebear tears. Current tanks are already full.


Also, if a 100 man indy corp gets wardecced by a 7 man PvP corp....wow, the odds are 100:7. But instead of fighting together in a PVP GAME, you come here to whine about EVE being unfair.


Tip: EVE isnt fair. HTFU or go play a different theme park game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#192 - 2013-11-07 16:24:09 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:


... If war decs were doubled in cost, would it "kill wardeccing for small corps?" What if it was tripled? What if it merely started at the same level but scaled up much more quickly as more corps are decced? Would any of this "kill" small corp wardeccing?

...how many MMOs have you played where people actually make the complaint that the entirety of the game's pve is terrible, while still actively playing said game?

Again, you're taking an "all or nothing" stance, which is just another way to frame the same old false dilemma. "You must choose between the current wardec system or PVE only!" Hogwash. Increasing the costs of wardecs does not equal turning Eve into a PVE-only game. Of course no one wants to kill PVP, so why go on a rant about how bad PVE is? How is that relevant? No one is suggesting that we remove the "fear of loss". There will still be wardecs.


You made some good points there. I think it's a bit insulting to the developers to say that the PVE is boring, on the contrary, for me it's what makes me want to play Eve the most.

The PVP side is the same as with any online game IMO, but without the safeguards as others which makes Eve more special.

I certainly don't want it taken away, but adapted to allow new players to start up their own corps without getting chased out by trivial griefers.

An increasing cost for multiple wardecs would be a good game balancer.


I know plenty of new players who made their own corp and never got wardecced. If you get wardecced, it means you made yourself a target one way or another.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Velicitia
XS Tech
#193 - 2013-11-07 16:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Jenn aSide wrote:


and in one long as run on sentence, DC just laid out every argument every.single.high sec poster ever posted.

DC wins EVE.


I believe "loses" was the word you were looking for.Blink

edit -- or maybe not ... I think the point DC was making may have flown right over my head... Question

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2013-11-07 16:28:31 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:


... If war decs were doubled in cost, would it "kill wardeccing for small corps?" What if it was tripled? What if it merely started at the same level but scaled up much more quickly as more corps are decced? Would any of this "kill" small corp wardeccing?

...how many MMOs have you played where people actually make the complaint that the entirety of the game's pve is terrible, while still actively playing said game?

Again, you're taking an "all or nothing" stance, which is just another way to frame the same old false dilemma. "You must choose between the current wardec system or PVE only!" Hogwash. Increasing the costs of wardecs does not equal turning Eve into a PVE-only game. Of course no one wants to kill PVP, so why go on a rant about how bad PVE is? How is that relevant? No one is suggesting that we remove the "fear of loss". There will still be wardecs.


You made some good points there. I think it's a bit insulting to the developers to say that the PVE is boring, on the contrary, for me it's what makes me want to play Eve the most.

The PVP side is the same as with any online game IMO, but without the safeguards as others which makes Eve more special.

I certainly don't want it taken away, but adapted to allow new players to start up their own corps without getting chased out by trivial griefers.

An increasing cost for multiple wardecs would be a good game balancer.


I know plenty of new players who made their own corp and never got wardecced. If you get wardecced, it means you made yourself a target one way or another.


why did you just make yourself a target?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#195 - 2013-11-07 16:28:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
(stuff)]


PARAGRAPHS! for the love of the flying spaghetti monster use paragraphs!

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#196 - 2013-11-07 16:30:53 UTC
fuer0n wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:


... If war decs were doubled in cost, would it "kill wardeccing for small corps?" What if it was tripled? What if it merely started at the same level but scaled up much more quickly as more corps are decced? Would any of this "kill" small corp wardeccing?

...how many MMOs have you played where people actually make the complaint that the entirety of the game's pve is terrible, while still actively playing said game?

Again, you're taking an "all or nothing" stance, which is just another way to frame the same old false dilemma. "You must choose between the current wardec system or PVE only!" Hogwash. Increasing the costs of wardecs does not equal turning Eve into a PVE-only game. Of course no one wants to kill PVP, so why go on a rant about how bad PVE is? How is that relevant? No one is suggesting that we remove the "fear of loss". There will still be wardecs.


You made some good points there. I think it's a bit insulting to the developers to say that the PVE is boring, on the contrary, for me it's what makes me want to play Eve the most.

The PVP side is the same as with any online game IMO, but without the safeguards as others which makes Eve more special.

I certainly don't want it taken away, but adapted to allow new players to start up their own corps without getting chased out by trivial griefers.

An increasing cost for multiple wardecs would be a good game balancer.


I know plenty of new players who made their own corp and never got wardecced. If you get wardecced, it means you made yourself a target one way or another.


why did you just make yourself a target?

cause I laugh at wardeccers.

1. I dont mind a wardec, it spices up highsec.
2. I hardly undock myself. Mainly cause I play on my RvB characters.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2013-11-07 16:31:26 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
(stuff)]


PARAGRAPHS! for the love of the flying spaghetti monster use paragraphs!


im lillitarate but how many languages can you speak?
talk.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#198 - 2013-11-07 16:32:20 UTC
i ******* hate dumbasses
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#199 - 2013-11-07 16:35:10 UTC
But to answer the title of the thread.

No, wars dont make people leave. People leave because they find out that EVE isnt the game for them. EVE has always been a PvP centered game, if you are expecting it to be carebear heaven you will be disapointed and leave. This doesnt mean the game is wrong or at fault, it means that EVE isnt your type of game.


This actually happened to a friend of mine who tried EVE for 3 months. After that he just acknowledged that EVE wasnt for him as he was really into PvE and nothing more. But unlike all the whining carebears in this thread and generally on the forums, he did see it in the right way: The game wasnt wrong or broken, it was just not the game for him.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2013-11-07 16:36:05 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
But to answer the title of the thread.

No, wars dont make people leave. People leave because they find out that EVE isnt the game for them. EVE has always been a PvP centered game, if you are expecting it to be carebear heaven you will be disapointed and leave. This doesnt mean the game is wrong or at fault, it means that EVE isnt your type of game.


This actually happened to a friend of mine who tried EVE for 3 months. After that he just acknowledged that EVE wasnt for him as he was really into PvE and nothing more. But unlike all the whining carebears in this thread and generally on the forums, he did see it in the right way: The game wasnt wrong or broken, it was just not the game for him.


tell that to git.