Ships & Modules

No! The so called nano-nerf only made another nano-age. Gallente were being kited before. In fact, it has always been that way for awhile. Minmatar did control mid-range pvp, while still being able to be very viable close range. Amarr was long range but, still had the ability to engage close range. Gallente were not very dynamic to begin with. What hurt close range engagements alot more than the range control of most other races was a increase in the player base. More pilots, more fleets. Which made 1 v 1 situations less likely. Something that can only be compensated for by a solo pvper by skirmishing.

It's also the case that Minmatar did and are in Amarrr territory. Minmatar dominated medium and now are very effective long range. The area where Amarr should excel in. Amarr now barely excel there. Something I mentioned has happened when the changes were introduced and many Amarr pilots have suggested happened. Tracking enhancers increased auto-cannons viability alot more than CCP realised. See, they got something that is alot like having ships like a Brutix do 1000- 1500 damage per second. CCP increased Minmatar ships applied damage by many folds. Something like 30 - 40%. It's nice to be able to do 1500 damage per second on paper. If you're only able to apply half of that in game. That increase does not mean much. Minmatar changes increased Minmatars applied damage, which was alot better than a str8 damage boost. Applied damage being a result of projected damage, of course.


[Rupture, Break copy 1]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II

Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Warrior II x5


This was a example of what I was using before the changes to Tracking enhancers. I limited overall damage with this set-up, but increased overall velocity and damage projection. This is what I was using to engage multiple frigates in the past and now (4 - 7 mix assault frigates on average). I still use this over the shield Rupture when dealing with multiple frigates. Even though its overall velocity is low. I've also engaged and destroyed ships like a Vagabond in this set-up.

I was quickly able to know the difference between paper damage and actual applied damage with set-ups like this. This is why heavy missiles are superior to heavy assault missiles overall and why pulse lasers are still superior to auto-cannons.

This is how i compensated for the large difference in Gallente damage and tank (Vexor more than Thorax). Most Minmatar pilots @ the time had no interest in figuring out ways to optimise their set-ups and was a big reason for the boost to MInmatar. They would not have needed it if they did set-ups like the one above to deal with what was the environment @ the time.

Gallente on the other hand is somewhat different. Gallente drone ships are infact the kings of close range pvp. Blaster ships never exceled there and they dont now. There is no Minmatar, Amarr or Caldari ship I'm able to fly that compared with Gallente drone ships in most classes, close range. I'm not sure what blasters ever excel @. Also, these are what I consider drone ships and all excel @ close range pvp. No other ships come close in there class: Taranis, Comet, Ishkur, Ishtar, Gila, Rattlesnake, Mrymidon, Eos, Vexor navy, Vexor, Dominix, Dominix Navy. Noticed that all these ships have noticeable more drones in their subsequent classes than any other ship. I made these classification 2 years ago, with the intent of finding Minmatar and Caldari alternatives that are as good or better, but I was never able to. I dont think I need to explain why drone ships are usefull close range if you've ever solo pvped (ecm resistant, tank, damage, neut resistant).

Not exactly in correct order but heres my 2isk...

1) Same reason Battleships aren't able to roflstomp frigates is why caps/supercaps shouldn't be what they are. CCP seems to have a clear "size doesn't equal I-Win"; until you hit capital ship level. If they have said capital ships are exempt from this then please link and I will stand corrected (I will chalk it up to asinine game developing as I do a lot of things in EVE)

I disagree strongly against "zerg the living **** out of it" as a solution to any problem in MMOs. Why? This would suggest you can't do exactly the same with an intensely smaller number. If it takes your zerg to kill one guy, what happens when he brings half a dozen friends?

"I brought a bigger ship so suck my wang and gimme yer loot"

2) The argument of "nerfing one FOTM is useless because a new FOTM will take its place" derails the purpose of the nerf. It isn't nerfed because it is popular (or shouldn't be), it is nerfed because it is giving unfair advantages.

3) as for nerfing in general: Game development in MMOs when done right is a series of nerfs and buffs. An example of another game is healers when Arenas were first introduced in WoW. There were 4 healers; Paladins were dominating, Priests were useful as a counter-composition, Shamans were just below mediocre and Druid healers were non-existant. Throughout the expansion they were tweaked until every healer was useful in many ways. (disclaimer: I have no idea how the current scene is as I haven't played since around 2009)

Also you have to keep in mind that where balance is the issue, and only one item is overpowered, it is much easier to change that one item then to change every single other item to match it

4) Whinging on the forums is useless, I agree. The honest to god best and quickest way to get things changed in MMO's from my 11 years experience playing them is to record tons and tons of footage of it and get it seen by lots and lots of people. Be extremely meticulous and have as much raw data as possible. Making a HUGE uproar out of valid and proven data which can be easy assimilated gets things changed (though to be honest, CCP seems one of the blindest companies as far as balance goes)

For instance in Everquest the classes that frequently got looked at were ones that had intelligent and dedicated players providing feedback directly to devs. You'd see the same Necromancers talking about expansion closed betas for instance, the same Beastlords.

How is a Cane supposed to get under a Harb's lasers? Getting that close just turns the fight into a straight up DPS/EHP race, which your typical shield cane loses to a plated Harb.

That's a crappy example as you have 250m+ ships shooting at eachother with weapons that have 125m resolution. Try cruiser to cruiser. The pulses will still hit but it's alot more 'barely scratched'.

A ships 1v1 abilities against another ship have little to do with its balance with that other ship.

Screw that. They can still move. Nerf them! And their ammo still has damage associated with it. NNNNEEEERRRRFFF!!!



-Liang

All your gunnery and gunnery support is V, right?

Try it with the average player who might not have that yet. They might have most to IV, some even to III. They miss a bit more.

If you don't have supports up to snuff, you can't use T2 weapons in the first place. In which case, you're just not interesting or important to this discussion.

No offense.

-Liang

If I see an Amarr ship and I want to engage as Minmatar I'm going to get as close as I can for several reasons:
1) It's where my damage is best.
2) I'm just about guaranteed to have a nuet fitted. The Amarr ship may or may not.
3) Tracking as a tertiary reason. If the Amarr ship doesn't have a TE fit, if the pilot panicked and didn't switch to MF (Huge damage reduction at close range!)- there is a difference. It adds up. I'm going to squeeze every bit of advantage I can out of the conflict.

Zealots as in Ahac gang? people fly those again? Admittedly, I haven't really actively played since june, but no matter where I went when I still actively played or after that (when I had to pick up some stuff), all I saw was Canes, Dramiels, Cynabals, Vagas, and of course Drakes.



The only time Amarr was really FOTM or even OP was sometime until '04 IIRC - then they were nerfed so hard they never really recovered. There was a short renaissance for a couple of months between QR and projectile boost and the brief periods when people copied Ahac gangs and later Hellcats for their respective niche-roles...




I doubt that - once fitting and support skills are maxed, cross-training is rather quickly accomplished - especially after having trained to Minmatar from Caldari, which may admittedly be a common approach. Armor tanking is skilled up pretty quick and you want that anyway if you can fly Minmatar. Gunnery supports will already be there and - assuming everyone maxes his fitting and cap skills either way, regardless of which race he starts with - all that's left are the racial ship and turret skills themselves plus controlled bursts.

Even on my pure Amarr character, I had shields (curse) and unguided missiles (sac) maxed out before finally giving up and crosstraining to Winmatar.

Anyway - I doubt we'll see Amarr at the same frequency we see Minmatar anytime soon - not because of skilling paths but because they're underwhelming compared to Minmatar due to CCP constantly refusing to acknowledge the tremendous advantage being able to dictate range and the highest chance to disengage at will bears.