EVE General Discussion

Appreciated.

I'm surprised people read walls of text, that was a whopper.

Let's see if you all think I am so bright when I run off and join Harry Forever.

But I won't do it on this character, would be bad for buisness. I would have to do it on another character. Which of course is not me, because I cannot claim to be myself on an alt. I think that is against the rules. So it will have to be another character who is not me, but knows me really well. Who is not me.

But I digress, carry on...

Lemme drop my 2 cents in.

Back in the day I started EVE, a few years ago, I remember joining my first player corp. Things seemed great at first. I was still learning the game, and corp activities and new friends made all seem much more fun.

Soon enough it turned out all our corporation did was grind missions and mine all day. Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm about the corp and the game itself started to wane. Is this what EVE has to offer? Endless grind?

And then we got wardecced. These guys were pro at pvp by our bear standards. Our corp leadership stayed logged out of game during the dec. A few of us that were online, we were scared stupid. But we decided to fight back. Mostly failed.

But those intense days of dodging camps, cat & mouse, attempts at evening the score, is what made me stay to this day.

Like a whole new world opened up. Suddenly there was more than missions. More than grind. They were leet, we sucked. So how to get better? How to learn more? How to be a good pvp pilot?

And instead of inactive account, these questions received an answer in the months ahead.

All thanks to a wardec.

You just won EVE.

Have another like on that wall of text I just got through.

It's nice to see a newbie who understands that the point of this particular MMO is not to bury your head in the sand and do your best to pretend other people don't exist.

No, no I haven't. And yes, the accusations in your last post were baseless, because you didn't base them on anything.

I never said anything about trying to make Eve "mainstream." I have no desire to do that, and neither does CCP, from what I've seen. THAT is a straw man argument, which you should be familiar with, since you've accused me of it. I am arguing that there is room for discussing changes to the wardec system that might help new player retention. Your straw man is that I want Eve to be mainstream, which is a much easier to defeat argument. But it's not what I am saying.

You should stop being afraid of change based on the disappointments in your past gaming experiences. Fear of change is simply not healthy.



No, no I haven't. We can keep going like this if you wish. But instead of "Yes you have" and "No I haven't" let's say "Wabbit Season!" and "Duck Season!" That would be much more fun. :)



Duck Season!!! Not because they don't know it, but because some of them seem to forget how important that is to this discussion in their fervor to defend "their game".



Duck Season!!! Again, quote me when you proclaim what -I- want because -I- never said that. Not even underlining will change that simple fact. As a matter of fact, I challenge you to quote anything I have said, at any time, in any thread, that supports your assertion that I want to take away actual risk to in-game assets. This is just another in your long string of baseless arguments and straw man fallacies.

But at least you finally stopped trying to tear me down personally in your last paragraph and are back on the topic of the thread. I agree that the death penalty in Eve is one of the elements of its success. However, saying that is the "only" reason for its success is a Complex Cause fallacy. CCP has done quite a few things right, other than maintaining Eve's risk factor, which have contributed to its success as a game. It could be argued that pushing back against elements that might sour the gaming experience for new players has also contributed to the game's success. All of those horrible "nerfs to high sec" throughout the years certainly didn't kill the game...as it's still here.

Now that he's won, can someone let him know that there's no such thing as passive aligned? I guess I can do it.

Hey Zheng....when your ship is not moving, it's not aligned, even if the game shows the ship pointed in the right direction. You have to already be moving in the direction you want to warp in order to decrease the time it takes to get into warp.

Also, this must be the first time in Eve's history that someone who was mining during a wardec got so many sincere "atta boys" from the forum dwellers. So let me join all of the others in this thread in offering my congratulations.

Straw man argument. OP never asks this.

And besides, non-consensual pvp has been changed many times over those 7 years. But again, you're off topic.

I agree, 100%. OP also seems to agree with this.

Where he and I diverge, however, is his assertion that wardeccing as a concept is responsible for lack of player retention.

Which is simply not true. The game has plenty of reasons for low player retention, the ludicrously complicated UI being among them, and the actions of other people can be easily discounted.

One does not enter into an MMO without being aware that people are involved, large numbers of them. And large numbers of people will mean negative interaction is basically a given.

I'm really not, because the op is suggesting that non-consensual pvp (or at least one of its facets) be changed from something that is done frequently and easily to something that is done as a "last resort". That's not a small change, it's a big one, and a big change to one of the things that makes eve the game that it is will be frowned upon by people who actually like the game for what it is, also known as the people currently paying CCP to keep playing their game.

What it boils down to is this:
Would eve be a better game if it were safer?
Eve is fairly well known for filling its server with people who would gladly say no.


It's kind of like suggesting that eve should have multiple servers. It's not that the idea itself is without merit, or that there aren't people who would like to see it happen, but were it actually implemented you'd be losing one of the core aspects of the game, and in the end it would suffer for it.