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POCO in Hi Sec and no empire standing required
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#61 - 2013-10-22 15:36:47 UTC
POCO's were designed to be a conflict driver, driving both economic and standard PVP, creating fights and conflict.

The standings grind to anchor them would be a p big barrier to that, and really serves no purpose. It doesn't bring any value or fun to the game it just allows people to sit on their poco's forever unless someone wnats to grind standings, which most people don't want to do.

They're trying to relieve tedium, not create more.

Highsec sovreignty should be more than just a mission grind to ding a number on a standings chart. You want the poco's? Stop being massive bears and defend them.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-10-22 15:48:12 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Fey Ivory wrote:
its sort of utterly stupid that dread pirate ganker, with a negative standing can set up infrastructure in that empire, just isent logical nor realistic, so set some kind of standing requirement

I actually think it would make more sense that the super-hostile pirate would be more free to do so than someone who was known to follow rules and regulations.

If the empires are losing their grip on Capsuleers, the ones who are most likely to start shooting would be the ones that the empires would probably steer clear of, since it forces the empires to put significantly more lives on the line than it does the Capsuleers (who, if they are in small-enough ships, such as Frigates, may not even require a crew).

The empires can then try to make up some of the lost tax revenue by taxing other, law-abiding groups more, while attempting to minimize their personnel losses.


Took me 3 pages before I found a comment along the lines of my thinking. The whole point is the evolution of capsuleers taking more control. There does not need to be "balance" with how things have always been. Capsuleers are taking control, not asking factions or Concord for permission. I like the idea of a knee-jerk higher tax to make up for lost revenue. Maybe they can levy a special tax on minerals or something to make up. One thing that could "balance" things is to reduce the cost to declare war against large alliances. In my opinion, there should be a small flat filing fee that is not dependent on the size of your opponent. This would nerf the ability of large alliances to take them all along with taking them back by smaller corps prohibitively expensive for many under the current system.


I agree entirely. It should not cost huge amounts to declare war on a large coalition than it does to declare war on a small carebear corp. Especially with these new POCO's in high sec it should not be possible to defend them with an "isk fence" just by being in a large organisation.
i should note that i don't use high sec POCO's and strongly doubt my alliance or corp will have anything to do with them after the change either.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#63 - 2013-10-22 16:04:23 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Maybe because corps that do have the proper faction standings are usually massive, risk-averse 1-man carebear operations that do nothing but grind L4's all day? I don't know a single corp that is elegable for hisec POS anchorage, and not one of these typical standing-grinded 1-man tax havens.


So instead CCP bypasses the mechanism that forced people to work for standings, and instead rewards the null sec cartels that can't possibly create a one man corp to put them up, then absorb that corp into their alliance?

Just another example of CCP over-hauling a game mechanism for the express benefit of the null sec cartels.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-10-22 16:32:00 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
You're right, they should get rid of the standings requirements for moons too.

Out side of highsec - got a gun? Go take it. In highsec - got a gun? Watch out for CONCORD. It's a different environment and has different rules - just like lowsec is different from w-space which is different than ...

Well no, because neither CONCORD nor the faction police will defend POCOs anymore. You can happily blow up the "big alliance" POCOs too.

Dodixie > Hek
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-10-22 16:39:29 UTC
Nocxi wrote:
I would like a dev to explain why there is no required standing planned to place a POCO in Hi Sec. How is it that an emipre has a problem with you placing a POS in 0.5 with a standing of 4.90 towards them to do research and production, but is fine with a corp/alliance with a -10.0 standing with them place a POCO in 1.0 space? Yes in game play it really only effects players, but means they would alow that -10.0 standing corp/alliance to tax exports and imports of their people and planets. I like the idea of POCO, but why are we going to throw standings out the window for this, but not anything else?


Because Eve has started a trend of expansions where the empires are loosing control and capsuleers are gaining it. Players aren't putting up highsec POCOs because the empires are allowing them too, players are putting them up whether the empires want them too or not.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#66 - 2013-10-22 16:41:10 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
So instead CCP bypasses the mechanism that forced people to work for standings, and instead rewards the null sec cartels that can't possibly create a one man corp to put them up, then absorb that corp into their alliance?
Yes, and you give the perfect reason why this is a good thing: because forcing people to grind standings is a horrible mechanic. Instead, they reward all players — irrespective of their origins — that are simply willing to make the investment and the risks associated with it.

Quote:
Just another example of CCP over-hauling a game mechanism for the express benefit of the null sec cartels.
…except, of course, that it's not really an example of that since no mechanisms are being overhauled, much less for the benefit of any particular group.
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-10-22 16:41:48 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Mocam wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
You're right, they should get rid of the standings requirements for moons too.

Out side of highsec - got a gun? Go take it. In highsec - got a gun? Watch out for CONCORD. It's a different environment and has different rules - just like lowsec is different from w-space which is different than ...

Well no, because neither CONCORD nor the faction police will defend POCOs anymore. You can happily blow up the "big alliance" POCOs too.


"Once a POCO is in place, players can make a legal attack only if they’re at war with the owning corporation. Attacking without an active war on the owner will bring CONCORD intervention."
- Taken from the high sec POCO dev blog.

Please train research to IV before posting on the forums.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-11-05 16:49:45 UTC
I feel this will drive smaller corps/players out of PI, they simply won't have the resources to defend any POCO, or the incentives to gain access through diplomacy.

I'd like to see a smuggling mechanism to get goods planetside/off planet. That way if corps take POCO's but don't patrol the area you just go around them.

would just take a deployable item to be included, cov-ops dropship.
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-11-05 16:56:47 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I feel this will drive smaller corps/players out of PI, they simply won't have the resources to defend any POCO, or the incentives to gain access through diplomacy.

I'd like to see a smuggling mechanism to get goods planetside/off planet. That way if corps take POCO's but don't patrol the area you just go around them.

would just take a deployable item to be included, cov-ops dropship.



You do realize it is possible to launch items off the spacepad on the planet directly into space right? You don't NEED a POCO for PI its just a POCO is the only thing that allows you to bring goods back down to the planet.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-11-05 17:09:53 UTC
exactly, you can ;launch off planet with rockets, no-one can stop you. But if you work stuiff up to P3 and P4 items?

There needs to be a clandestine method to get P2 items planetside to work them up further without going through a POCO/NPC CO.

Something to match the rocket based export mechanism. Also low-sec planets would benefit from a shorter runtime to produce P3/P4 goods, make smuggling a profitable excercise.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#71 - 2013-11-05 17:42:38 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:

Well no, because neither CONCORD nor the faction police will defend POCOs anymore. You can happily blow up the "big alliance" POCOs too.


Wrong again as per usual.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#72 - 2013-11-05 17:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Nocxi wrote:
I would like a dev to explain why there is no required standing planned to place a POCO in Hi Sec. How is it that an emipre has a problem with you placing a POS in 0.5 with a standing of 4.90 towards them to do research and production, but is fine with a corp/alliance with a -10.0 standing with them place a POCO in 1.0 space? Yes in game play it really only effects players, but means they would alow that -10.0 standing corp/alliance to tax exports and imports of their people and planets. I like the idea of POCO, but why are we going to throw standings out the window for this, but not anything else?



Probably because CCP realizes that corp standings to anchor towers is a gigantic pain in the ass and a generally terrible and un-fun mechanic that involves grinding missions and/or boot players from corp. Its pretty clear why they wouldn't force a corporation into doing this for POCOs.

Standings will eventually get thrown out the window for poses, but CCP hasn't done that because CCP is allergic to any kind of work that involves touching poses.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Violet Crumble
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#73 - 2013-11-05 20:52:13 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Just another example of CCP over-hauling a game mechanism for the express benefit of the null sec cartels.


It benefits everyone the same.

Stop crying about it and engage your brain. If you look at it as an opportunity rather than a nerf to highsec dwellers, you'll end up finding ways to make a profit out of this, rather than focussing on the sky falling down.

The sky never falls. Every single player in the game has the same level of opportunity. The only real difference between players is their level of preparedness to take advantage of those opportunities.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime
Richard Ramlrez
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-11-05 21:25:33 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Maybe because corps that do have the proper faction standings are usually massive, risk-averse 1-man carebear operations that do nothing but grind L4's all day? I don't know a single corp that is elegable for hisec POS anchorage, and not one of these typical standing-grinded 1-man tax havens.



you sound mad bro tell us where the bad carebear corp touched you?



Twisted
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#75 - 2013-11-05 21:45:42 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
... or we can just scrap empires, laws, rules, npcs, concord,..


And Rubicon isn't the start down that exact path?

Profit favors the prepared
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#76 - 2013-11-05 22:46:54 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:

Well no, because neither CONCORD nor the faction police will defend POCOs anymore. You can happily blow up the "big alliance" POCOs too.


Wrong again as per usual.

I think he was simply thinking of the mechanics for the new Depots and Siphons. It's easy to jumble the intricacies of all the new stuff.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#77 - 2013-11-05 22:47:45 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
exactly, you can ;launch off planet with rockets, no-one can stop you. But if you work stuiff up to P3 and P4 items?

There needs to be a clandestine method to get P2 items planetside to work them up further without going through a POCO/NPC CO.

Something to match the rocket based export mechanism. Also low-sec planets would benefit from a shorter runtime to produce P3/P4 goods, make smuggling a profitable excercise.

Fair point.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.