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Intaki and the Federation
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Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2013-11-05 15:48:37 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

2. I do not have to provide reason or rationale for my service to my Fatherland to foreigners and outsiders, either at length or in brief.

How fortunate then, that you were not asked to.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#182 - 2013-11-05 16:00:28 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Yeah, I've noticed that. Perhaps if the State wants so badly to influence the Federation's internal affairs, it should submit a membership application.


You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation? Hmmm.... What terms?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#183 - 2013-11-05 16:08:44 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Yeah, I've noticed that. Perhaps if the State wants so badly to influence the Federation's internal affairs, it should submit a membership application.


You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation? Hmmm.... What terms?


I don't think Andreus has a 50% stake in the Federation, but I'm sure he was discussing it more on the basis of equal cut alongside the other signatories.


Personally I'd just hold out for peace in the vain hope that without the threat of war, the Placid and Black Rise region can focus on cleaning up the piracy that infests it, rather than be too busy shooting at each other to deal with something that matters.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2013-11-05 16:33:15 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation?

Slightly less, but if it'll make the State stop whining about the Federation, yes.

Also, with the State as a member, the Federation would be the single most powerful political and military entity in the cluster, easily able to repel any external threat such as the Empire, Sansha's Nation, Guristas, Serpentis or the Sleepers with a minimum of effort.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Cathy Okagima
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-11-05 17:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cathy Okagima
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation?

Slightly less, but if it'll make the State stop whining about the Federation, yes.

Also, with the State as a member, the Federation would be the single most powerful political and military entity in the cluster, easily able to repel any external threat such as the Empire, Sansha's Nation, Guristas, Serpentis or the Sleepers with a minimum of effort.


Or I guess more Importantly it would give the federation the opportunity it so wants to squish the Minmatar because it doesn't seem to like there freedom any more either. The federation wants to pull every other nation into its ranks by force and abusing its power as it see's fit. It takes over the home worlds of other nations and then expects them to go happily along with it. My nation has a lot of problems as well and we are by no means perfect but the federation never has and never will apologise for there crimes. Not at least till the day we take there home planet from them, an action that I really hope we never need to take.
GoGo Yubari
PAK
#186 - 2013-11-05 17:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: GoGo Yubari
Leopold Caine wrote:
Oh look, anotherthread descending into the cesspool of gallente-caldari IGS warfare. Keep up the good work, ladies.


Anyway, on the original post regarding Intaki:
Where the initial post has proven to be interesting to read, it's a bit... lacking. For an analytical post, even one named 'Intaki and the Federation', it is either foolish or simply biased to take only those two entities into account. I believe a certain Caldari megacorp has already been brought up, so I'll extend that to the Intaki Syndicate as well, which is quite rarely mentioned.

I am aware some federals like to live in illusions of grandeur, but closing your eyes and pretending something's not there is not a viable thing when it comes to strategic analysis. Which brings me back to my point about foolishness/bias again - were you actually writing an analysis or a poorly disguised propaganda pamphlet?


I would like to hear your specific complaints about the text, instead of this general dismissal. Your grievance thus remains largely unaddressable.

You do at least mention that you don't like that the text does not discuss the Syndicate or Ishukone. This treatise was named "Intaki and the Federation" for a reason and it does actually mention the events which led to the creation of the Syndicate (being a crucial moment in the history of the Intaki inside the Federation) and also Ishukone's important role in the system's current affairs, as they pertain to the Intaki and the Federation.

The Syndicate could easily be a topic for another discussion (and actually I think you can find previous writing - albeit dated - on the subject under this name on previous incarnations of GalNet) and perhaps Ishukone as well. However, in-depth examinations of those two entities were beyond the immediate scope and premise of this discussion. Again, if you have specific grievances, we can address them together. Obviously, I couldn't tackle every issue in two posts.

Propaganda for what, by the way?

Love by nature. Live by luck. Kill by profession.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2013-11-05 17:11:40 UTC
Cathy Okagima wrote:
Or I guess more Importantly it would give the federation the opportunity it so wants to squish the Minmatar because it doesn't seem to like there freedom any more either. The federation wants to pull every other nation into its ranks by force and abusing its power as it see's fit. It takes over the home worlds of other nations and then expects them to go happily along with it. My nation has a lot of problems as well and we are by no means perfect but the federation never has and never will apologise for there crimes. Not at least till the day we take there home planet from them, an action that I really hope we never need to take.

It's pretty amazing how wrong you managed to be in so few words.

Usually people on the IGS have to write about three paragraphs or so to be this misinformed.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Cathy Okagima
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#188 - 2013-11-05 17:29:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Cathy Okagima wrote:
Or I guess more Importantly it would give the federation the opportunity it so wants to squish the Minmatar because it doesn't seem to like there freedom any more either. The federation wants to pull every other nation into its ranks by force and abusing its power as it see's fit. It takes over the home worlds of other nations and then expects them to go happily along with it. My nation has a lot of problems as well and we are by no means perfect but the federation never has and never will apologise for there crimes. Not at least till the day we take there home planet from them, an action that I really hope we never need to take.

It's pretty amazing how wrong you managed to be in so few words.

Usually people on the IGS have to write about three paragraphs or so to be this misinformed.


I may be new to the IGS sir however the few points that I made in that previous statement are hardly incorrect.

  • The Federations attitude towards the Minmatar Republic has been very icy of late. And I quote "Jel – In a speech delivered to constituents in his home system........ the former colonel with the Federal Marines went on to call the Republic “untrustworthy” and a “security threat”..........The anti-Republic sentiments drew scattered but vocal cheers from the audience, in contrast to the universal but more muted applause occurring during other points in the speech."


  • Caldari Prime was originally the home-world of many of the people in the state. And I quote " Caldari-Gallente War. A bitter conflict, the war leads to the expulsion of the Caldari from their home planet and the formation of the Caldari State as a fully-independent corporate empire."
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#189 - 2013-11-05 17:45:13 UTC
Welcome to the Intergalactic Summit, Okagima.

I suggest you do a bit more research than the first couple of trash sensationalist stories in the future, before coming here and posting things with an approach that sounds like you're dictating facts.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Cathy Okagima
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-11-05 18:01:12 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Welcome to the Intergalactic Summit, Okagima.

I suggest you do a bit more research than the first couple of trash sensationalist stories in the future, before coming here and posting things with an approach that sounds like you're dictating facts.


I'm not dictating anything the first Caldari Gallente war did involve the expulsion of the caldari from there home planet and If you read the news which I expect a stand up citizen like yourself does tensions are rising between the Minmatar and the Gallente, whether that is the doing of one of those particular nations is a matter for discussion but both of my quotes are from legitimate sources.

http://eve.com/

http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/conservative-senator-calls-republic-untrustworthy/

I'm rather sad that you cannot simply correct my mistakes if I have made any I would be pleased for the insight and I apologise for any harm you feel I have caused you.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#191 - 2013-11-05 18:23:11 UTC
You're taking a sensationalist story regarding one Senator, less than a year from elections, try to appease to a minority of far right nationalists in an attempt to score votes.

You're then using that, and a moment in history you barely gave a whim of attention to the details of, and simply cherry picking a fact from, and then use this in your damning criticism where you made bold accusations against the Federation.


I strongly suggest you rethink your approach, there are people here who have been debating this long before you got behind the controls of your first training shuttle, some of these arguments have been long done to death. You're fresh meat in a well picked bone yard.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#192 - 2013-11-05 18:51:11 UTC
Welcome Cathy Okagima dont mind guys like Marellus and Ixiris they are rude knuckle dragging Fed thugs with blow up dolls of Roden & Mentas Blaque in their apartments. If you criticize the Fed be prepared to be whacked over the head by them.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#193 - 2013-11-05 19:04:00 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation?

Slightly less, but if it'll make the State stop whining about the Federation, yes.

Also, with the State as a member, the Federation would be the single most powerful political and military entity in the cluster, easily able to repel any external threat such as the Empire, Sansha's Nation, Guristas, Serpentis or the Sleepers with a minimum of effort.


Okay, this was supposed to be a joke, but actually that sounds kind of sexy, doesn't it?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Cathy Okagima
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#194 - 2013-11-05 19:10:33 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You're taking a sensationalist story regarding one Senator, less than a year from elections, try to appease to a minority of far right nationalists in an attempt to score votes.

You're then using that, and a moment in history you barely gave a whim of attention to the details of, and simply cherry picking a fact from, and then use this in your damning criticism where you made bold accusations against the Federation.


I strongly suggest you rethink your approach, there are people here who have been debating this long before you got behind the controls of your first training shuttle, some of these arguments have been long done to death. You're fresh meat in a well picked bone yard.


Thanks, your reply may of been a little on the sharp side but It is what I asked for e.g. an insight into my mistakes. I hope we can have more of these civilised discussions in the future. I will admit my sentiments where from a rather hard line and bone headed line of argument which came as a knee jerk reaction to someone suggesting the State join the Federation.

I hope you accept my apology, that said I hope senator Jel never rises any further then his current status, sadly, as seen in my state far right nationalists sometimes do make it into powerful positions.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#195 - 2013-11-05 19:11:15 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation?

Slightly less, but if it'll make the State stop whining about the Federation, yes.

Also, with the State as a member, the Federation would be the single most powerful political and military entity in the cluster, easily able to repel any external threat such as the Empire, Sansha's Nation, Guristas, Serpentis or the Sleepers with a minimum of effort.


Okay, this was supposed to be a joke, but actually that sounds kind of sexy, doesn't it?


A united front of the CONCORD signatories sweeping out and laying waste to the threats of Nation, Serpentis, Guristas, Blooders, Sleepers and what may yet come sounds better.


Man can but dream, one day...

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Anslo
Scope Works
#196 - 2013-11-05 19:12:41 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You're willing to give up 50% control in the federation?

Slightly less, but if it'll make the State stop whining about the Federation, yes.

Also, with the State as a member, the Federation would be the single most powerful political and military entity in the cluster, easily able to repel any external threat such as the Empire, Sansha's Nation, Guristas, Serpentis or the Sleepers with a minimum of effort.


Okay, this was supposed to be a joke, but actually that sounds kind of sexy, doesn't it?

The only way I'd fly with you bastards as allies is if I got my own pair of custom jackboots and aviators.

But jokes aside, ain't it just a thought? Federal projection and intel combined with the technological advancement of the State. I'm sorry, but who the hell is standing up to that?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#197 - 2013-11-05 19:15:57 UTC
Actually I have terms if the State were to rejoin the Federation.

I want one of those really smart Grey jackets you guys sport, the ones with the high collar?


Always thought I'd look good in that.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
GoGo Yubari
PAK
#198 - 2013-11-05 19:16:48 UTC
And now it seems we're once more talking about a Federation that better matches it's original mandate. Unfortunately, this seems such a far-fetched idea when you look around at the cluster (or indeed this thread ), but it certainly isn't impossible. Sure, the Federation would have to change to re-incorporate the Caldari - as would the State.

Love by nature. Live by luck. Kill by profession.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#199 - 2013-11-05 19:18:16 UTC
GoGo Yubari wrote:
And now it seems we're once more talking about a Federation that better matches it's original mandate.


Again, man can but dream. If the Federation were to return to the principles on which it were formed, I'd gladly fly under it's flag without any hesitation.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Anslo
Scope Works
#200 - 2013-11-05 19:18:59 UTC
Why do they have to join the Federation? They're doing fine as their own entity. Learn from the past and let them govern their own way. When I say ally with them, I mean ally, not fold into the Fed. Think of it, a united front of two governments; The Northwestern Alliance for Trade and Defense. NATD.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]