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Crime & Punishment

 
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Confirmation on Exploit

First post
Author
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-11-18 15:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: SiIver Twin
scenario


A pilot is member of an alliance at war. He has his WT's on watch list so he can see non are online and is observant in local to make sure non are around. He sees the coast is clear and heads on out to do some activities, mining/missions/exploring. When someone warps in close to him, he notices nothing strange about this new capsuleer except that they are locking him up. He gives local another check (this could be a scout scanning my ship for the war targets) and notices no war targets in local.

Rapidly he's losing shields as the ship engages on him. The attacker then turns red and it shows him to be a war target. Upon checking his employment history it shows that less than a minute ago he changed into the war corp... then changed back almost as quick. (once the ship died)

Further examination of the fiends history shows that he has performed this type of dirty trick in the past. Many times.

Is this not an exploit?

Worst part is the guy is a right heel and will constantly smack talk after a successful kill, yet he won't war dec with his main character. He does this to minimize his exposure and keep himself safe.
Onlyasandwich
NewsRadio
#2 - 2011-11-18 15:42:42 UTC
This is second-hand information for me, but I believe the ruling was that it is okay to change corp in station in such a scenario, but what your WT did was indeed a punishable offense.
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-18 16:04:08 UTC
I think you are thinking of dropping corp while under attack.
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-18 16:16:48 UTC
No, the dropping corp happened under 30 minutes after the fight though.

After the ship was destroyed he bailed corp back to his original one again his total time was in the War dec corp was 27 minutes. He's obviously only putting applications in, so that when he sees there are very few members online. He moves into place where there is only 1 target. Then accepts it and then engages instantly.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#5 - 2011-11-18 16:17:45 UTC
Just petition it?

Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-18 16:25:08 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Just petition it?

Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse.


The member of the alliance that was attacked put the petition in, just thought I'd ask on here while waiting for a response.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-18 16:26:04 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Just petition it?

Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse.

For sure petition it, if he absolutely did *not* go flashie until he attacked you... that is either a bug, or an exploit. vOv

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#8 - 2011-11-18 16:33:35 UTC
It is indeed an exploit, I know people who have got warnings before for using this tactic.
Lithalnas
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#9 - 2011-11-18 16:53:45 UTC
if they are useing it specifically to cause graphical glitches or get you to concord yourself than it is an exploit. However just because it is illegal does not mean the guy will get punished for it. Your petition will probably get a generic answer back with no action.

https://www.facebook.com/RipSeanVileRatSmith shoot at blue for Vile Rat http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73406

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#10 - 2011-11-19 10:42:49 UTC
If:

1. Corp Infiltrator attacks in-corp high-value target (Jump Freighter/Orca)
2. Gets kicked from corp by director while fighting in space and gets Concorded. = Not an exploit???

(And even if the Concorded infiltrator petitions and gets his ship back, the target still gets to keep his Jump Freighter and it nullifies the entire point of the infiltration in the first place - which might have consumed days or weeks.)


Well, Then:

Using the same mechanics to ambush wartargets must also be valid.

This is the can of worms CCP opened by allowing corp membership to instantly change while flying in space.
IMO, it should be reverted, and fast - or at the very least some kind of timer implemented, one hour, two hours, whatever.

I don't want to get into this messy grey "Using the mechanics in 'THIS' way is an exploit, but not in 'THAT' way - and BTW don't talk about it on the forums - petition it, but then don't talk about the petitions on the forums."

Enforcement is likely to be completely uneven, and results of petition enforcement will be nearly unknowable by the community at large. Its BS.
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-19 11:17:41 UTC
The response received about this states "if there is no session timers I.E. a docking/undocking or jumping through a stargate. Then it is exploiting. There must be at least 1 session timer so that you show as being in the appropriate corp"

The corp have done this twice in 1 day, both times they were on grid and locked up the members of my alliance before making the switch and then opening fire before the pilot could react.
magic preacher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-19 11:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: magic preacher
or you could argue this

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19881

In the past, there have been some policies in place within Customer Support that imposed additional rules onto the war mechanics available in game, such as the so called "Alliance Hopping" or the more recent "Dec Shield".

The decision has been made to lift those restrictions that affect war declarations, thereby opening up ways for corporations to avoid unwanted wars via methods that were previously considered exploits of game mechanics.

In other words:
If you can leave or declare a war, raise the costs for other entities to declare one to you or do any other war related things within current normal game mechanics, you may do so without having to keep other rules in mind.

just a thought
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-19 13:04:00 UTC
magic preacher wrote:
or you could argue this

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19881

In the past, there have been some policies in place within Customer Support that imposed additional rules onto the war mechanics available in game, such as the so called "Alliance Hopping" or the more recent "Dec Shield".

The decision has been made to lift those restrictions that affect war declarations, thereby opening up ways for corporations to avoid unwanted wars via methods that were previously considered exploits of game mechanics.

In other words:
If you can leave or declare a war, raise the costs for other entities to declare one to you or do any other war related things within current normal game mechanics, you may do so without having to keep other rules in mind.

just a thought


All the mentioned exploits that were given free reign were to avoid war decs. This is more about honoring them. They are using underhanded tactics to insure that they are not at risk while able to attack others. And we know if we were to Dec their main corp, they would just bail into NPC corps and do the same again.

I'd suggest a slight change to the war mechanics. Why not that if you join or leave a corp during war time, your status is frozen for 15 minutes. So if you are engaged and quit it won't result in a concording and people can clearly see you've joined a corp before you are able to engage in combat on them.
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus
#14 - 2011-11-19 13:15:17 UTC
I can't tell you what is and what isn't an exploit-but I would tell you that if this happened to me-I would petition it ASAP. It sounds like this player is stalking targets based on corp of victim and joining just for the combat/WT status at that time. I would also file reimbursement petition :D Good luck and keep us informed-D3

Hmmm

Reppyk
The Black Shell
#15 - 2011-11-19 13:29:27 UTC
It really sounds like the "LSS trick".
Which corp/alliance is using it again ?

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !

Nika Dekaia
#16 - 2011-11-19 14:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nika Dekaia
GM Karidor wrote:
3) Corp hopping to evade war decs
No longer an exploit, with the exception of pilots changing corps while in space AND online (i.e. to"surprise" war targets).

Linkage

Still an exploit. Those rules have been updated to reflect the changes to wardeclaration mentioned in preachers post.

Edit: So..did they get a warning or not? Since there clearly was no session change timer involved.
0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#17 - 2011-11-19 22:41:23 UTC
I love this, they never bother to ban carebear exploiters, who jump corp to dodge war but the bears want corp hoppers who jump to gank war targets banned. LOL. Hypocracy at its finest. Anyhow just petition you'll get your ship back, any ships lost to war dec just get reinbursed now as CCP does not bother to check if exploits happen due to war decs. They don't refund dropped modules sadly or we could turn this into a big isk fountain.
Cerisia
Red Phoenix Rising
#18 - 2011-11-19 23:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerisia
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
I love this, they never bother to ban carebear exploiters, who jump corp to dodge war but the bears want corp hoppers who jump to gank war targets banned. LOL. Hypocracy at its finest. Anyhow just petition you'll get your ship back, any ships lost to war dec just get reinbursed now as CCP does not bother to check if exploits happen due to war decs. They don't refund dropped modules sadly or we could turn this into a big isk fountain.



Dunno maybe it's me, but carebears who really don't want to pvp and corp hop to avoid it seems no-where as cowardly as the exploit described in the OP. In fact if you are using this exploit to attack people I'd go so far as to say that you fail at Eve and Pvp in my humble opinion.
This space for rent..
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#19 - 2011-11-20 01:41:32 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Just petition it?

Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse.



CCP will do NOTHING. Been there....experienced that....................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2011-11-20 03:57:28 UTC
Yes, it is an exploit.
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