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BIG issue with Bastion

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Hiroshi Yakasuki
Yakasuki Enterprises
#101 - 2013-11-04 20:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiroshi Yakasuki
Meh.
Lupo diCotze
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-11-05 00:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lupo diCotze
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Janet Clover wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
Isn't the OP about the ship just being a bit too vulnerable while on Bastion?

A dread, carrier or rorqual is never alone. Should a DC happen, you can rep them and keep them up while you come back to retake control.

A marauders is being treated as a capital, while being as tanky as a battleship with less buffer. They are different ships, different roles. Ok, keep bastion cycling and then e-warp, but the ship has pityful HP to survive that DC, and no fleet supporting it. It's mostly a solo ship, forever alone.


i see your confusion, maybe you should read the description on a siege and or triage module. you CANT rep a dread, carrier or super carrier in siege/triage so if **** happens you are dead.

besides it was the OP that made the post about safe warp on DC he thinks it is fair that a marauder in bastion mode does a safe e-warp and i strongly disagree with a few people and i haven't heard a single reason that makes me reconsider.

So you think it's totally ok that Marauders become the only subcap ship that sits in a site with all mods off & dies on a DC when NOT pointed?
Literally, the ONLY subcap ship that has this issue.
If you worry about abuses, then make it Ewarp at the end of Bastion, that's good enough. There is still a 5 minute PvE timer for you to probe them down. If you can't get them in that time, you wouldn't have probed them down before they could warp safely while connected.


Cyno ships are subcap and suffer the same problem.
Active cyno mod locks you in place - dc and you're still stuck and vulnerable.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-11-05 00:36:05 UTC
Lupo diCotze wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Janet Clover wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
Isn't the OP about the ship just being a bit too vulnerable while on Bastion?

A dread, carrier or rorqual is never alone. Should a DC happen, you can rep them and keep them up while you come back to retake control.

A marauders is being treated as a capital, while being as tanky as a battleship with less buffer. They are different ships, different roles. Ok, keep bastion cycling and then e-warp, but the ship has pityful HP to survive that DC, and no fleet supporting it. It's mostly a solo ship, forever alone.


i see your confusion, maybe you should read the description on a siege and or triage module. you CANT rep a dread, carrier or super carrier in siege/triage so if **** happens you are dead.

besides it was the OP that made the post about safe warp on DC he thinks it is fair that a marauder in bastion mode does a safe e-warp and i strongly disagree with a few people and i haven't heard a single reason that makes me reconsider.

So you think it's totally ok that Marauders become the only subcap ship that sits in a site with all mods off & dies on a DC when NOT pointed?
Literally, the ONLY subcap ship that has this issue.
If you worry about abuses, then make it Ewarp at the end of Bastion, that's good enough. There is still a 5 minute PvE timer for you to probe them down. If you can't get them in that time, you wouldn't have probed them down before they could warp safely while connected.


Cyno ships are subcap and suffer the same problem.
Active cyno mod locks you in place - dc and you're still stuck and vulnerable.


Uh, this may be because you're performing an activity that actively effects other players.

There are other ships involved in this activity.
If you were to DC in the middle of this activity, it could collapse an entire alliance.
Not to mention, the cyno ship is completely locked out, to include all movement and all modules.
So, in the event of a DC, there is absolutely no change in your capabilities.

If you DC in bastion, it could be literal difference between like or death.
However, while the effect is similar to triage/siege, the difference is the ship EHP.
In a carrier/dread, you have enough EHP to where if you do die during a DC, the odds are pretty good that you would have died reguardless.
Marauders do not have the EHP to survive 30 seconds without active tanking in a simple lvl 4 mission.
Ted Bell
Virtual Eclipse Industrial Technology
#104 - 2013-11-05 01:51:40 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


Uh, this may be because you're performing an activity that actively effects other players.

There are other ships involved in this activity.
If you were to DC in the middle of this activity, it could collapse an entire alliance.
Not to mention, the cyno ship is completely locked out, to include all movement and all modules.
So, in the event of a DC, there is absolutely no change in your capabilities.

If you DC in bastion, it could be literal difference between like or death.
However, while the effect is similar to triage/siege, the difference is the ship EHP.
In a carrier/dread, you have enough EHP to where if you do die during a DC, the odds are pretty good that you would have died reguardless.
Marauders do not have the EHP to survive 30 seconds without active tanking in a simple lvl 4 mission.


If you disconnect while a cyno is up, you leave fleet and nobody can jump to you. So I don't know where you are going with this. And you can use all your modules while lighting a cyno, you just can't move.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-11-05 01:57:23 UTC
Ted Bell wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:


Uh, this may be because you're performing an activity that actively effects other players.

There are other ships involved in this activity.
If you were to DC in the middle of this activity, it could collapse an entire alliance.
Not to mention, the cyno ship is completely locked out, to include all movement and all modules.
So, in the event of a DC, there is absolutely no change in your capabilities.

If you DC in bastion, it could be literal difference between like or death.
However, while the effect is similar to triage/siege, the difference is the ship EHP.
In a carrier/dread, you have enough EHP to where if you do die during a DC, the odds are pretty good that you would have died reguardless.
Marauders do not have the EHP to survive 30 seconds without active tanking in a simple lvl 4 mission.


If you disconnect while a cyno is up, you leave fleet and nobody can jump to you. So I don't know where you are going with this. And you can use all your modules while lighting a cyno, you just can't move.


Well, then I propose that cyno ship usage on DC is broken.
Johann Rascali
The Milkmen
Sedition.
#106 - 2013-11-05 03:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Johann Rascali
In my experience the "problem" is that ships only try to warp once upon the server noticing you've DC'd, then they sit there like a dumb duck until you log back in, their aggression times out, or they explode. I've always wondered why they don't keep trying to warp until they manage to enter it.

That said, contrary to what lots of people here have said, most times when I log back on after DCing my modules are, in fact, still running. Not sure what the parameters are to that.

In the end, I'd be happy with the compromise of the ship attempting to warp off if it survives to the end of its current Bastion cycle; if it's pointed then it should obviously be stuck.

Blanking signatures doesn't seem to work, so this is here.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#107 - 2013-11-05 04:09:50 UTC
Johann Rascali wrote:

In the end, I'd be happy with the compromise of the ship attempting to warp off if it survives to the end of its current Bastion cycle; if it's pointed then it should obviously be stuck.


This.

Katrina Oniseki
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#108 - 2013-11-06 01:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Can we get a Dev to respond to this please, as it is a large concern

( just finished running several tests on sisi with a kronos, was in the first room of mordus headhunters level 4 mission and aggroed the entire room to get large incoming DPS, had a Centus x type large armor repairer running and repairing 3770 HP every 11.3 seconds. my tank was cap stable and my resists were all at 82% and above.

incoming DPS reduced my armor to about 88 percent each cycle, thankfully the repairer repairs 25% of armor each cycle so no problem perma tanking the whole room, I then simulated a DC by closing the client. waited 3 minutes and when I came back my ship was still sitting in room but now only had about 30% armor as once bastion dropped my tank was much weaker and the ship made no attempt to warp, I decided to test it again to see if maybe it would warp if given more time. ( there were no scamblers only webbers so that was not an issue)

did the same test and then logged in after 5 minutes, I was in my pod.

As it currently stands even with a strong cap stable tank with deadspace modules, the fact that the ship does not warp out at all means death in heavy DPS missions when DC happens. So bastion is an auto suicide for mission runners.)

I trained a lot of time, for marauders, about 1/3 of the way to level 5. If this is not changed before Rubicon hits TQ than expect mission runners to all sell their marauders or to just never use bastion mode.

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!
Julius Priscus
#109 - 2013-11-06 06:02:34 UTC
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:


did the same test and then logged in after 5 minutes, I was in my pod.



Did you even check for scramblers?
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#110 - 2013-11-06 14:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Julius Priscus wrote:
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:


did the same test and then logged in after 5 minutes, I was in my pod.



Did you even check for scramblers?


there were no scrambles as my post says, edited post, it was the first room not second.

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!
Matokin Lemant
#111 - 2013-11-07 03:51:12 UTC
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:


did the same test and then logged in after 5 minutes, I was in my pod.



Did you even check for scramblers?


there were no scrambles as my post says, edited post, it was the first room not second.



From what I know of what is gong on with the bastion module/mode, its a known (at least by the player base) problem/ feature. CCP still has not made a comment one why other the other on this "issue".