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Somer Blink - Asked to stop but have got worse!

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Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#441 - 2013-11-04 22:38:10 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

The lottery they did have for the other things was probably ill advised, agree on that one also. But that has already been answered.
So.... Yes. I don't see them getting special treatment above & beyond everyone else.


They got special treatment nevertheless, even if the issue has been answered.
They got a community spotlight and dev posts certifying them 100% credibility which is quite a lot for a EvE gambling site and hasnt been seen before.
They got free advertisment through the giveaway.
And the devs are currently backing them by not posting here and giving them 10 days to cash out.


Add on top of that the fact that even without the 'referral incentive' *cough*euphamism*cough* somer blink is still a commercial enterprise designed to make a real-world profit.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Marsha Mallow
#442 - 2013-11-04 23:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Finally
Yes, I get that Somer are doing what is effectively RMT. Which is why CCP have given the cease & desist order to all the GTC Resellers. Which is.... Not just Somer. It's not special treatement to Somer alone. All GTC resellers had the same capability before, and all of them have the same FFA ability that Somer are using. The fact the rest of them aren't is getting my respect obviously, but it doesn't mean that Somer is getting a unique allowance.
It's standard when terms are changed on a contract to allow people time to comply, in this case CCP set that at 10 days. So it's very hard legally for CCP to turn around and say 'actually, you can't have that 10 days we actually promised you to get sorted'.
But it's still not special treatment. It's a general change with a general grace period to fix it. Of course..... If Somer run 5 minutes over that grace period & still have it up, I wouldn't be surprised to see the hammer come down hard on them after they have abused it. So here's hoping for Somer to miss their upload window at the end of the grace period and still engage in it after the time is up.

As a player, the only contract Somer is subject to is the EULA. Which can, and is changed by CCP with no warning, at their discretion.

When was the last time CCP changed the EULA to stop something and allowed a grace period for the offenders to continue engaging in said offence?

Are they even changing the EULA in relation to this? I thought the 10 days cease and desist was an acknowledgement that this type of activity does in fact breach it.

Which the playerbase had to point out P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#443 - 2013-11-04 23:59:36 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Finally
Yes, I get that Somer are doing what is effectively RMT. Which is why CCP have given the cease & desist order to all the GTC Resellers. Which is.... Not just Somer. It's not special treatement to Somer alone. All GTC resellers had the same capability before, and all of them have the same FFA ability that Somer are using. The fact the rest of them aren't is getting my respect obviously, but it doesn't mean that Somer is getting a unique allowance.
It's standard when terms are changed on a contract to allow people time to comply, in this case CCP set that at 10 days. So it's very hard legally for CCP to turn around and say 'actually, you can't have that 10 days we actually promised you to get sorted'.
But it's still not special treatment. It's a general change with a general grace period to fix it. Of course..... If Somer run 5 minutes over that grace period & still have it up, I wouldn't be surprised to see the hammer come down hard on them after they have abused it. So here's hoping for Somer to miss their upload window at the end of the grace period and still engage in it after the time is up.

As a player, the only contract Somer is subject to is the EULA. Which can, and is changed by CCP with no warning, at their discretion.

When was the last time CCP changed the EULA to stop something and allowed a grace period for the offenders to continue engaging in said offence?

Are they even changing the EULA in relation to this? I thought the 10 days cease and desist was an acknowledgement that this type of activity does in fact breach it.

Which the playerbase had to point out P


Actually as a GTC reseller there is a commercial agreement outside the game in place in addition to the EULA. Which was being interpreted in combination with the EULA to allow the isk incentives. That interpretation has changed. I'm not a commercial lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if you go changing a real world contract dealing with real money and don't allow time for the company to meet the new contract, that's when you get taken to court and loose. Exactly what the nature of the GTC resellers agreement is, I can't speak as to that. But at the very least there is a basic verbal one.
Marsha Mallow
#444 - 2013-11-05 00:39:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Actually as a GTC reseller there is a commercial agreement outside the game in place in addition to the EULA. Which was being interpreted in combination with the EULA to allow the isk incentives. That interpretation has changed. I'm not a commercial lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if you go changing a real world contract dealing with real money and don't allow time for the company to meet the new contract, that's when you get taken to court and loose. Exactly what the nature of the GTC resellers agreement is, I can't speak as to that. But at the very least there is a basic verbal one.

Markee Dragon is the official GTC seller, presumably with a contract with CCP. Somer is an affiliate of MD (and was formerly an affiliate of Shattered Crystal), and therefore has no contract with CCP except the EULA. Check the pic.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#445 - 2013-11-05 00:55:21 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Actually as a GTC reseller there is a commercial agreement outside the game in place in addition to the EULA. Which was being interpreted in combination with the EULA to allow the isk incentives. That interpretation has changed. I'm not a commercial lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if you go changing a real world contract dealing with real money and don't allow time for the company to meet the new contract, that's when you get taken to court and loose. Exactly what the nature of the GTC resellers agreement is, I can't speak as to that. But at the very least there is a basic verbal one.

Markee Dragon is the official GTC seller, presumably with a contract with CCP. Somer is an affiliate of MD (and was formerly an affiliate of Shattered Crystal), and therefore has no contract with CCP except the EULA. Check the pic.

& being an affiliate holds legal status. Otherwise they would be committing some kind of fraud or something whenever they sold a GTC. So, again, more than the EULA is at play.
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#446 - 2013-11-05 01:10:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except your own examples show they do have integrity.
They made mistakes, owned up to the give away of Guardian Vexors being a mistake, and took it back.
That is exactly what Integrity is. Integrity is not never making a mistake. snip the non related BS



No, integrity is NOT trying to do things in the underhanded manner in which they tried, got cught and then was forced to change since they could not reasonably explain away giving guardian vexors as they first tried.

They as much as admitted to having no integrity the instant they decided not to do it.

I have no problem with those few that see it differently than the facts if that is how you roll.
Frying Doom
#447 - 2013-11-05 01:14:08 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Actually as a GTC reseller there is a commercial agreement outside the game in place in addition to the EULA. Which was being interpreted in combination with the EULA to allow the isk incentives. That interpretation has changed. I'm not a commercial lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if you go changing a real world contract dealing with real money and don't allow time for the company to meet the new contract, that's when you get taken to court and loose. Exactly what the nature of the GTC resellers agreement is, I can't speak as to that. But at the very least there is a basic verbal one.

Markee Dragon is the official GTC seller, presumably with a contract with CCP. Somer is an affiliate of MD (and was formerly an affiliate of Shattered Crystal), and therefore has no contract with CCP except the EULA. Check the pic.

& being an affiliate holds legal status. Otherwise they would be committing some kind of fraud or something whenever they sold a GTC. So, again, more than the EULA is at play.

I must admit Markee Dragon's affiliate program is the first I have even seen where you sign up for an account, before you can read the terms of service.

I might have missed them but I don't think so.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#448 - 2013-11-05 03:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirren D'marr
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Actually as a GTC reseller there is a commercial agreement outside the game in place in addition to the EULA. Which was being interpreted in combination with the EULA to allow the isk incentives. That interpretation has changed. I'm not a commercial lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if you go changing a real world contract dealing with real money and don't allow time for the company to meet the new contract, that's when you get taken to court and loose. Exactly what the nature of the GTC resellers agreement is, I can't speak as to that. But at the very least there is a basic verbal one.

Markee Dragon is the official GTC seller, presumably with a contract with CCP. Somer is an affiliate of MD (and was formerly an affiliate of Shattered Crystal), and therefore has no contract with CCP except the EULA. Check the pic.

& being an affiliate holds legal status. Otherwise they would be committing some kind of fraud or something whenever they sold a GTC. So, again, more than the EULA is at play.


You seem to be a bit confused about how this works. Somer Blink does not sell GTCs. They merely have a link on their site through which players can purchase GTCs from Markee Dragon. Markee Dragon gives Somer a kickback for every GTC purchase made through their (Somer's) site. As a GTC reseller, Markee Dragon has an agreement with CCP to sell GTCs. As a Markee Dragon affiliate, Somer's only agreement is with Markee Dragon, not CCP.

CCP instructed the resellers (Markee Dragon in this case) to cease business relations with affiliates who offer ISK incentives for GTC purchases, and gave them 10 days to comply. In general, CCP does not deal directly with the affiliates (Somer is the exception as they seem to be able to skype with CCP devs, but I would assume that is a result of their past dealings with CCP, not because they are an affiliate of a reseller), as they have no direct business relation with such sites.

SOMER Blink is an in-game corporation of players who run a website. Like many player run sites, they are an affiliate of a GTC reseller. For most of these sites, this is done as a way to cover server expenses, etc. Somer (and I presume a few others) just found a way to turn being an affiliate into a profitable business. That still does not mean that they have any business relation with CCP beyond being players of the game, and as such, they are bound by the EULA and TOS just like any other player.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#449 - 2013-11-05 04:12:10 UTC
Kirren D'marr wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Actually as a GTC reseller there is a commercial agreement outside the game in place in addition to the EULA. Which was being interpreted in combination with the EULA to allow the isk incentives. That interpretation has changed. I'm not a commercial lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if you go changing a real world contract dealing with real money and don't allow time for the company to meet the new contract, that's when you get taken to court and loose. Exactly what the nature of the GTC resellers agreement is, I can't speak as to that. But at the very least there is a basic verbal one.

Markee Dragon is the official GTC seller, presumably with a contract with CCP. Somer is an affiliate of MD (and was formerly an affiliate of Shattered Crystal), and therefore has no contract with CCP except the EULA. Check the pic.

& being an affiliate holds legal status. Otherwise they would be committing some kind of fraud or something whenever they sold a GTC. So, again, more than the EULA is at play.


You seem to be a bit confused about how this works. Somer Blink does not sell GTCs. They merely have a link on their site through which players can purchase GTCs from Markee Dragon. Markee Dragon gives Somer a kickback for every GTC purchase made through their (Somer's) site. As a GTC reseller, Markee Dragon has an agreement with CCP to sell GTCs. As a Markee Dragon affiliate, Somer's only agreement is with Markee Dragon, not CCP.

CCP instructed the resellers (Markee Dragon in this case) to cease business relations with affiliates who offer ISK incentives for GTC purchases, and gave them 10 days to comply. In general, CCP does not deal directly with the affiliates (Somer is the exception as they seem to be able to skype with CCP devs, but I would assume that is a result of their past dealings with CCP, not because they are an affiliate of a reseller), as they have no direct business relation with such sites.

SOMER Blink is an in-game corporation of players who run a website. Like many player run sites, they are an affiliate of a GTC reseller. For most of these sites, this is done as a way to cover server expenses, etc. Somer (and I presume a few others) just found a way to turn being an affiliate into a profitable business. That still does not mean that they have any business relation with CCP beyond being players of the game, and as such, they are bound by the EULA and TOS just like any other player.

Thank you. A few misconceptions thrown down to the ground there. And they were on their way toward becoming invincible perma-memes.
Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
New Miner's Union
#450 - 2013-11-05 08:59:24 UTC
I am lost, everyone is arguing that Somer is giving an isk incentive to buy GTC's through his / her site. This is wholly incorrect!!


Somer has NEVER given an isk incentive, merely tokens on the Somer blink site. Yes, I concede this is an isk equivilent, but it is NOT isk. Somer's site runs totally seperate to Eve and and isk donations to somer are for CREDIT on the site.

Somer is kind enough for you to cash out these credits as a tranfer to real isk but one has to play and win on the site to be in a position to cash out credits for isk.

I really don't see why people are getting this simple transaction sooooo wrong.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2013-11-05 09:13:14 UTC
Lol.

Community gets mad when CCP gifts Somer's hard work with a few ships(Read NOT ISK or real monies. Pixels.)

Community gets mad when Somer gifts community with more site credit/tokens(read NOT ISK or real monies. Pixels.)


Community gets mad when CCP wakes up every morning?


CHILL.


Somer has always used part of the GTC cost to fund its servers. So they're offering more site credit(which comes out of their pocket as all their buy outs and bonks/minibonks and promos THEY pay for) to get in a bit more cash to keep the server up AND thank their community for their support so far..... And have been given a date at which CCP wishes for them to stop. Which they have given every appearance that they will.

So long as they are no longer offering credit by the deadline which CCP has asked them to stop, they are not really doing anything wrong, as CCP has allowed this behavior in the past. You can't really blame them for using the last few days they have. It's like after Christmas sales. Everyone takes advantage of them because everyone benefits.

Somer has never once sent me money in the mail. Somer has never once slipped me isk. Everything I've ever gotten from Somer was through the same system everyone else has access to, which CCP has allowed to date.


Peeps just need to relax....



At the end of the day, this is all CCP's business. They've allowed this in the past, and are now changing policy. They tried to do something cool, fun, and nice for people and the player base, and peeps all blew their minds. Now that the community has made it clear they would never like any chance at any niceties ever because it's just not fair, CCP is reigning in one of their largest sources of community niceness.


GG.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
RAW23
#452 - 2013-11-05 10:28:39 UTC
Dilligafmofo wrote:


Somer has NEVER given an isk incentive, merely tokens on the Somer blink site. Yes, I concede this is an isk equivilent, but it is NOT isk. Somer's site runs totally seperate to Eve and and isk donations to somer are for CREDIT on the site.

Somer is kind enough for you to cash out these credits as a tranfer to real isk but one has to play and win on the site to be in a position to cash out credits for isk.

I really don't see why people are getting this simple transaction sooooo wrong.


So what you are saying is that Somer doesn't technically give you isk directly but he does actually give you isk via an indirect route? And the addition of an extra step in the transaction chain is meant to help how, exactly? Even you concede that the end result is exactly the same.

Quote:

Yes, I concede this is an isk equivilent

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
RAW23
#453 - 2013-11-05 10:39:40 UTC
Quote:

Everything I've ever gotten from Somer was through the same system everyone else has access to, which CCP has allowed to date.


This is a core part of the problem. CCP allowed this in the past when Somer was more or less the only person doing it. They then brought their practices into line with their own EULA only when other people started doing the same.

Quote:
Somer has always used part of the GTC cost to fund its servers. So they're offering more site credit(which comes out of their pocket as all their buy outs and bonks/minibonks and promos THEY pay for) to get in a bit more cash to keep the server up AND thank their community for their support so far.


Is it even remotely plausible that Somer's server costs run to over 50k dollars a year?

Quote:

Community gets mad when Somer gifts community with more site credit/tokens(read NOT ISK or real monies. Pixels.)


The difference between Somer's credit and its direct isk equivalent is a smokescreen. The former is directly convertible into the latter at a 20% discount and Somer provides the means to effect the conversion. Giving someone Somer's credits is exactly the same in effect as giving someone isk to the value of the credits minus 20%. And by the way, Isk is pixels too. Arguably real money as well Blink

Generally, your view that Somer offers isk for clicking the referral button out of 'niceness' flies in the face of the evidence that he is using eve to run an out of game business for out of game profit. If you want to see his concern with monetizing third party development for eve just read his twitter feed. Now, I don't personally have any objection to this in principle. What I do object to is CCP making it explicit in the EULA that this is not allowed but then permitting a favourite to ignore their own rules whilst enforcing them on everyone else.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#454 - 2013-11-05 10:43:02 UTC
My english isn't that good but shouldn't the thread title be "but have gotten worse" , if no please explain why!
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#455 - 2013-11-05 10:50:36 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
My english isn't that good but shouldn't the thread title be "but have gotten worse" , if no please explain why!



That it should...... But I'd be careful correcting Forum warriors on a self righteous rant.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#456 - 2013-11-05 11:06:27 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
My english isn't that good but shouldn't the thread title be "but have gotten worse" , if no please explain why!



That it should...... But I'd be careful correcting Forum warriors on a self righteous rant.

You wont wake up tomorrow.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Llawa
Perkone
Caldari State
#457 - 2013-11-05 11:27:12 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
My english isn't that good but shouldn't the thread title be "but have gotten worse" , if no please explain why!


No, presumably because the author is not American
Frying Doom
#458 - 2013-11-05 12:59:30 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
My english isn't that good but shouldn't the thread title be "but have gotten worse" , if no please explain why!



That it should...... But I'd be careful correcting Forum warriors on a self righteous rant.

Still is better than some of the misinformed rants by some forum users. Especially ones that don't seem to post very often.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2013-11-05 13:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Frying Doom wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
My english isn't that good but shouldn't the thread title be "but have gotten worse" , if no please explain why!



That it should...... But I'd be careful correcting Forum warriors on a self righteous rant.

Still is better than some of the misinformed rants by some forum users. Especially ones that don't seem to post very often.



I play Eve to play Eve, not forum Warrior.



CCP can run their business how they choose, and allow their resellers and affiliates to operate how they choose.


Peeps don't like it?

Well, they have a tool for protesting that too.


Unsub.

Otherwise, it'll end in a few days when the deadline drops, so peeps need to just relax.

Editting in:

Quote:
CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!


Quoting straight off the blink front page.


That's 2 days. Peeps have been waiting how long for SMA's to be fixed? T3's to refit in space?


Really, read quote.

/thread. Nothing else need said.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#460 - 2013-11-05 13:21:05 UTC
If you have to buy your isk then you fail at EvE and should biomass your char. Arrow