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Somer Blink - Asked to stop but have got worse!

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#421 - 2013-11-04 20:06:42 UTC
that is also why you can decline changes in the EULA and get a prorated amount of your subscription back, because a contract that CCP can modify at will with without letting you opt-out of the new agreement is also unenforcable

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#422 - 2013-11-04 20:11:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Weaselior wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

CCP breaking its own EULA for that business
.


EULA = END USER License Agreement. CCP isn't an End User. It's not some Bible of CCP conduct. CCP's only responsibilities are to it's own wallet.

CCP can use it's EULA for Toilet paper (they probably do....) and it's no one Else's business but their own. no amount of crying on CCPs forum about issues that have nothing to do with you is going to change that.

uh no

the EULA is a contract. it binds both parties. it is an agreement between you and ccp. if it didn't bind CCP in any way, it wouldn't be enforceable in most jurisdictions as contracts have to be exchanges instead of one-way


I live in the U.S. "5th Circuit" p[personally, EULA's the require payment for the software before you sign the aggreement aren't enforceable at all here. But I understand what you are saying, but the EULA itself clearly set out the limit of CCPs liability. For the EULA to actually be a real contraint on CCP, they'd have to break icleand law.

In effect, the EULA doesn't apply to CCP, it applies to us. Even to the point where they say they can shut down EVE and not give you a refund of any kind and theres nothing you can do about it lol.

Quote:

that said most of the restrictions in it only apply to you, you promise not to sell isk for money or whatever and in exchange ccp lets you log in


Right, and no where does CCP say that THEY won't sell isk for money or make side-ways exceptions for business partners, friends, croneys,Goons, the CIA (same as Goons) etc etc. CCP can do as it pleases, the people who don't like that should (imo only) vote with money not forum posts IMO.
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#423 - 2013-11-04 20:27:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP can do as it pleases, the people who don't like that should (imo only) vote with money not forum posts IMO.


As long as this thread remains open for people to discuss the matter, I doubt you'll be able to wield much influence over anyone's behavior.


Marsha Mallow
#424 - 2013-11-04 20:44:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Right, and no where does CCP say that THEY won't sell isk for money or make side-ways exceptions for business partners, friends, croneys,Goons, the CIA (same as Goons) etc etc. CCP can do as it pleases, the people who don't like that should (imo only) vote with money not forum posts IMO.

This is where the "oh god why are you all whining about this you entitled cry babbies, it's CCP's game, if you don't like it there's the door" yadda yadda argument looks a bit shaky.

All you have to do is replace SOMER with GEWNs or Pandemic Legion or Solar Fleet in this incident to understand why people are riled. Somer is reportedly run by an 'unaligned' individual with employees rather than an entity, and the ISK has been generated from a gambling site, rather than say, rental or moon income. Does how the ISK was accumulated actually make any difference? Does the identity of the individual(s) involved, and whether or not CCP 'likes' them?

Whilst it's true GD (and the eve forums in general) are rife with pitchfork wielding lunatics, most of the time underlying mass protests like this there is a fair point to be made. I'm not sure why people feel compelled to post on a forum complaining about other people complaining? If you don't get what all the fuss is about, maybe you're just not getting the point?

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#425 - 2013-11-04 20:49:22 UTC
Praxston wrote:
Your right that CCP can do whatever they want as it is their company / game. However, I have unsubbed three accounts and noted the reasons at the end of the unsub process. CCP devs posted in the SOMER thread on eve forums which gave the whole thread a nice little DEV icon while other third party thread got no love. If someone had a name close to SOMER, like SOMBER (like I did once), name change was forced very quickly to protect SOMER. And I'm not too happy that they cracked down on the non-direct RMT process against other and not SOMER... just don't get it. So flaming on forums really isn't productive, I agree... But un-subscribing accounts might get a message across.


Except you are wrong.

CCP have cracked down on Somer just the same as everyone else. Somer just decided to abuse the 10 day grace period that EVERYONE was given to get their house in line.
If you don't like it, and feel CCP have somehow been biased towards Somer, Contact IA and ask them to investigate. They will even send you a nice E-mail in response to your issues if you lay it out nicely.

All unsubbing does is spite your own nose in this case.
AnUnskilled Pilot
Doomheim
#426 - 2013-11-04 20:56:29 UTC
So just to recap:

Its generally assumed ccp or rogue ccp employees are behind summer in a plan to boost the eve economy and have a way to sink isk. There isn't much resource for us.
Opia Munba
mss industry
#427 - 2013-11-04 21:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Opia Munba
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Praxston wrote:
Your right that CCP can do whatever they want as it is their company / game. However, I have unsubbed three accounts and noted the reasons at the end of the unsub process. CCP devs posted in the SOMER thread on eve forums which gave the whole thread a nice little DEV icon while other third party thread got no love. If someone had a name close to SOMER, like SOMBER (like I did once), name change was forced very quickly to protect SOMER. And I'm not too happy that they cracked down on the non-direct RMT process against other and not SOMER... just don't get it. So flaming on forums really isn't productive, I agree... But un-subscribing accounts might get a message across.


Except you are wrong.

CCP have cracked down on Somer just the same as everyone else. Somer just decided to abuse the 10 day grace period that EVERYONE was given to get their house in line.
If you don't like it, and feel CCP have somehow been biased towards Somer, Contact IA and ask them to investigate. They will even send you a nice E-mail in response to your issues if you lay it out nicely.

All unsubbing does is spite your own nose in this case.


I did this, and got this reply.

Thank you for your email. I can confirm that we are in the process of shutting down incentive programs that some GTC sellers have been using to promote their wares, not least because of the controversy they have generated recently. This will be happening shortly and various sellers and their affiliates are reacting in various ways to the news, as you have noticed. It‘s unfortunate, but ultimately their own decision, taken in light of CCP‘s stance going forward.

which basically means f**k off, so i`m f**king off .
I pointed out btw that somer blink are clearly RMT ing at around 800mill per gtc referall. Pls stop suggesting this whole internal affairs nonsense because it seems no f**ks are given. CCP are claiming they are pwerless to stop somer at the moment lol. I think that makes unsubbing a perfectly reasonable response.... i`m not trying to play Blink online
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#428 - 2013-11-04 21:07:09 UTC
CCP has ZERO integrity.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#429 - 2013-11-04 21:10:24 UTC
Almost 60 pages in various threads and no response from CCP, stay classy.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#430 - 2013-11-04 21:11:40 UTC
Zero integrity? Because they won't ban someone for behaviour they said was acceptable originally and now in response to the public demands they are now changing the rules..... We are the ones who called for it to be classed as RMT activity and stopped.
And CCP have issued a stop order....

And you call that zero integrity? I think you need to really look at yourself if you want to make that sort of call.

As for the IA response, yes, mine was similar, it explained their restrictions, affirmed that Somer are being shut down and will not be able to continue and also affirmed that Somer were getting no special treatment relative to anyone else. The problem with this is?
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#431 - 2013-11-04 21:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost Phius
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Zero integrity? Because they won't ban someone for behaviour they said was acceptable originally and now in response to the public demands they are now changing the rules..... We are the ones who called for it to be classed as RMT activity and stopped.
And CCP have issued a stop order....

And you call that zero integrity? I think you need to really look at yourself if you want to make that sort of call.

As for the IA response, yes, mine was similar, it explained their restrictions, affirmed that Somer are being shut down and will not be able to continue and also affirmed that Somer were getting no special treatment relative to anyone else. The problem with this is?


Actually no not because of what you wrote mate. Actually it is because of the YEARS of bad behavior that they have not learned from as the recent attempt to give away Guardian Vexors showed. They knew they were wrong in trying to do that and soon backed down off of that insane attempt.

The deal with them being in business with RMT'ers all arcoss the globe? Well that is just scumbaggery and people have responded to it as they should.

They have a HISTORY of ZERO integirty.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#432 - 2013-11-04 21:24:11 UTC
Except your own examples show they do have integrity.
They made mistakes, owned up to the give away of Guardian Vexors being a mistake, and took it back.
That is exactly what Integrity is. Integrity is not never making a mistake.

So.... go away and try again.
And if you think they are giving someone special treatment, use the correct way to complain, Internal Affairs. It's simple, easy and they answer. You may not like the answer if you are simply wanting to have a bonfire and sacrifice people on it obviously, but if you have a real complaint they will look at it.
Frying Doom
#433 - 2013-11-04 21:39:58 UTC
Nevyn Auscent
You might want to explain what rules have changed, rather than CCP ignoring their own rules.

As to Somer being shut down, do you mean shut down or no longer able to break the EULA section on RMT? As under the EULA they should be shut down (ban hammered) for being an income-seeking business within EvE.

As to no special treatment, well that would depend on your answers to the above questions now wouldn't it.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
YesYes NoNoNo
Karmic Rebalance
#434 - 2013-11-04 21:40:55 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Zero integrity? Because they won't ban someone for behaviour they said was acceptable originally and now in response to the public demands they are now changing the rules..... We are the ones who called for it to be classed as RMT activity and stopped.
And CCP have issued a stop order....

And you call that zero integrity? I think you need to really look at yourself if you want to make that sort of call.

As for the IA response, yes, mine was similar, it explained their restrictions, affirmed that Somer are being shut down and will not be able to continue and also affirmed that Somer were getting no special treatment relative to anyone else. The problem with this is?


No special treatment relative to anyone else!

My sides, they may enter orbit. Blinkscorps, gvexors, magnates OH MY!

Hell that's just the kickbacks that we know about.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#435 - 2013-11-04 21:53:25 UTC
G.Vexors/Magnates never happened. It was proposed then canned (Quite rightly so I agree).
Five/Six groups got given the Scorps for Community rewards, not just Blink. A bunch more were in line to get them before the whining over Blink getting them killed other peoples rewards, and once they sort out their system and publish it, said bunch may still get their rewards.
The lottery they did have for the other things was probably ill advised, agree on that one also. But that has already been answered.

So.... Yes. I don't see them getting special treatment above & beyond everyone else. A couple of things were proposed that shouldn't have been. Somer were/are also acting in a somewhat duplicitous manner in order to milk the maximum isk from said things. But..... whining about it on the forums and unsubbing isn't the solution. It simply looks like a knee jerk response when you do that, and doesn't look like you have addressed the facts.

1000 E-mails to IA all complaining formally over Somer are far more likely to generate a serious response.
Luci Ambrye
The Service Crew
#436 - 2013-11-04 21:59:46 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
G.Vexors/Magnates never happened. It was proposed then canned (Quite rightly so I agree).
Five/Six groups got given the Scorps for Community rewards, not just Blink. A bunch more were in line to get them before the whining over Blink getting them killed other peoples rewards, and once they sort out their system and publish it, said bunch may still get their rewards.
The lottery they did have for the other things was probably ill advised, agree on that one also. But that has already been answered.

So.... Yes. I don't see them getting special treatment above & beyond everyone else. A couple of things were proposed that shouldn't have been. Somer were/are also acting in a somewhat duplicitous manner in order to milk the maximum isk from said things. But..... whining about it on the forums and unsubbing isn't the solution. It simply looks like a knee jerk response when you do that, and doesn't look like you have addressed the facts.

1000 E-mails to IA all complaining formally over Somer are far more likely to generate a serious response.


Internal Affairs are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
Opia Munba
mss industry
#437 - 2013-11-04 22:11:23 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
G.Vexors/Magnates never happened. It was proposed then canned (Quite rightly so I agree).
Five/Six groups got given the Scorps for Community rewards, not just Blink. A bunch more were in line to get them before the whining over Blink getting them killed other peoples rewards, and once they sort out their system and publish it, said bunch may still get their rewards.
The lottery they did have for the other things was probably ill advised, agree on that one also. But that has already been answered.

So.... Yes. I don't see them getting special treatment above & beyond everyone else. A couple of things were proposed that shouldn't have been. Somer were/are also acting in a somewhat duplicitous manner in order to milk the maximum isk from said things. But..... whining about it on the forums and unsubbing isn't the solution. It simply looks like a knee jerk response when you do that, and doesn't look like you have addressed the facts.

1000 E-mails to IA all complaining formally over Somer are far more likely to generate a serious response.


"milk the maximum isk "?? ..... do you even have a grasp.... somer is banking $$ . i don`t give a flying **** how much they earn isk wise. When you point out that somer are rinsing 800 million for 6-8% of the referal fee of a gtc...... thats the problem.
Somer are shifting a rough 800 million for 2 dollar at a 6% referal.(and other sources say it could be 8%).
Its solid RMT and you don`t seem to understand that lol.
What somer have done is cash out for real money and CCP is going to clearly allow that for the remainder of the period.
It`s like a week long RMT FFA sanctioned by CCP .... you should understand that.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#438 - 2013-11-04 22:19:47 UTC
*munches popcorn*

What...SOMER Blink doing stuff to line their IRL wallets?

No!!! Surely you jest!!! And I just got 500 mill Blink credit too!!!

Roll

TLDR.......LolLolLolLolLolLolLol

Because....because....EVE is all about honesty and trust and magical space unicorn kittens.

Bear

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#439 - 2013-11-04 22:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Baali Tekitsu
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

The lottery they did have for the other things was probably ill advised, agree on that one also. But that has already been answered.
So.... Yes. I don't see them getting special treatment above & beyond everyone else.


They got special treatment nevertheless, even if the issue has been answered.
They got a community spotlight and dev posts certifying them 100% credibility which is quite a lot for a EvE gambling site and hasnt been seen before.
They got free advertisment through the giveaway.
And the devs are currently backing them by not posting here and giving them 10 days to cash out.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#440 - 2013-11-04 22:35:10 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

The lottery they did have for the other things was probably ill advised, agree on that one also. But that has already been answered.
So.... Yes. I don't see them getting special treatment above & beyond everyone else.


They got special treatment nevertheless, even if the issue has been answered.
They got a community spotlight and dev posts certifying them 100% credibility which is quite a lot for a EvE gambling site and hasnt been seen before.
They got free advertisment through the giveaway.
And the devs are currently backing them by not posting here and giving them 10 days to cash out.


The Devs didn't certify them with 100% credibility if you bothered to read. They simply said Somer hadn't scammed so far. It's reading comprehension fail to take that as a 100% promise they never will, especially since the Devs outright said Somer could do so at any time still.

Community Spotlights are not special treatment, loads of other people have had them. Unless you think we should delete all community spotlights & stop them also?

Finally
Yes, I get that Somer are doing what is effectively RMT. Which is why CCP have given the cease & desist order to all the GTC Resellers. Which is.... Not just Somer. It's not special treatement to Somer alone. All GTC resellers had the same capability before, and all of them have the same FFA ability that Somer are using. The fact the rest of them aren't is getting my respect obviously, but it doesn't mean that Somer is getting a unique allowance.
It's standard when terms are changed on a contract to allow people time to comply, in this case CCP set that at 10 days. So it's very hard legally for CCP to turn around and say 'actually, you can't have that 10 days we actually promised you to get sorted'.
But it's still not special treatment. It's a general change with a general grace period to fix it. Of course..... If Somer run 5 minutes over that grace period & still have it up, I wouldn't be surprised to see the hammer come down hard on them after they have abused it. So here's hoping for Somer to miss their upload window at the end of the grace period and still engage in it after the time is up.