Character Bazaar

Re: Hi
Отправитель: Mackenzie Ayres
Дата отправки: 2013.09.28 01:44
Кому: DScore De,

Or we follow the rules and you transfer money and I complete transfer. 

"The ISK that a buyer sends when attempting to purchase a character is considered to belong to him until such a time as the character being purchased has been delivered to the account of his choosing. If the character sale is not completed, the ISK must be returned in full to the potential buyer."

Rule # 18, you must transfer first.

If you dont transfer with 24 hours I will void your bid and report you to CCP as a potential scammer. 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6369&find=unread

Thanks

Mac.

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Hi
From: DScore De
Sent: 2013.09.28 01:23
To: Mackenzie Ayres

Hi ... I understand we will do everything by the book ... my account this character Kyb78russ mail nemov-pavel@mail.ru .... you started transfer as current, a letter arrives from SSR I translate money ..

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Hi all, tell me please it's divorce or I must first translate ISK?

If a seller allows a payment delay to his buyer , mentioning it in a private sale topic, is he still supported by CCP ?

Is there any ingame channel for character trading?

So here is the deal I would like an official answer on with an explanation / justification:

1. Seller opens an Auction for a character
2. A Buy-Out offer was posted (Buyer 1) on the thread
3. Seller accepts buyout offer on the auction-thread
- to make it clear: A buy-out offer was posted for all to see, and the seller accepted that buyout offer for all to see.
4. Buyer 1 sends the funds to the seller and posts this information in the thread. Its now evident that the character
or object of the auction was paid for in full in the agreed-upon amount.
Seller post receiving the ISKs and initiates transfer - this is posted in the thread as well.
6. NINE HOURS GO BY
7. Buyer 2 sends an evemail to the character being sold and inquires about:
"Hey I saw you accepted a buyout offer on the board for Amount X. I want to outbit that guy"
(important to note here, he mentioned reading the sales thread and knew a buyout was accepted and that ISKs were sent etc)
8. 1 more hour goes by and BUYER2, not getting a reply from the character / seller now posts a larger amount of the previously accepted buyout offer (hostile takeover) in the hopes that the seller would reneg on the BO offer.

Now some legal stuff: The definition of when a sale / auction is over:
http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/auction-sale/



So, GMs / CCP - its not just about semantics – this is, just as your TOS and EULA, about
rules and regulations governing the process of a character sale. These rules have defintions, some more defined than others.
They are written in a generally understandable and acceptable fashion (Not in chinese in a EU or US forum etc) using common language.

As such, language is important and so are definitions.
Buyer1, upon loggin into his new character, which he doesnt plan on selling, reads the attempted contact from buyer2.
Buyer1 also fully understands that the sale was over long before buyer2 woke up to start his day and that buyer2
had read and understood that the char auction was over with, yet, he still attempted to acquire the char, 9 hours after
auction-end. Buyer1 knowing that by definition (listed above) he was in the right in keeping the ISK.

Buyer2 petitions, GM comes on and rips the money out. GM also failed to justify as to why he, also knowing the saga above, still thinks that rule #19 applies.

I feel buyer1 was wronged by the GM posting a negative balance on his account in the amount
of the ISK received by the muppet that attempted to outbid the already accepted and paid for BO offer.
The BO Offer was accepted, the sale was closed the minute buyer1 paid the agreed-upon price, those funds were transfered and the transfer of the character was initiated. This was PUBLIC knowledge, not to mention that muppet_01
attempted to blob the offer 9 hours after AND, he also read and understood that the
sale ended because prior to sending the ISK he also sent an evemail talking about seeing
the BO offer acceptance.

Your Rule #19 clearly states: “If the character sale is not completed, the ISK must be returned in full to the potential buyer”

Well, I gave you the generally accepted definition of when an auction / sale is completed.
If your interpretation or definition of when a sale is complete is different from what is found
under definitions on this subject (I looked up 10+ such definitions – all basically coming up with the same) then I think its time
to post your own definition of when a character sale ends.

Until such time, I think Buyer1 was wronged by the GM’s decision to withdraw muppet_01’s ISK and return funds to him. The Sale ended and as such, Rule #19 does no longer apply or protect idiots or mischievious brokers who think they can win out auctions behind the scene and swoop in to make a deal. Buyer2 clearly went into the unprotected zone by circumventing the auction thread completely. It is HIS responsibility to ensure, after reading that the auction actually closed, to verify and wait for communication / verification from the seller - if for some reason beyond my imagination - a person with a healthy mind does not comprehend that
Buyout Offer + Acceptance + Money Sent + 9 hours later = too late - Sale Ended - Auction done with - **** out of luck.

Buyer2 sent his ISK into nirvana as the character no longer was for sale, which was evident and public knowledge as the process of the sale was posted in the sales thread. Also consider the fact that buyer2 read those posts and 9 hours later attempted his failed take-over bid/

Now – CCP – please explain the decision of the GM. How, according to your own rule, can he
consciously action buyer1’s account and issue a negative balance in the amount of the failed hostile take-over bid from buyer2 – considering the facts posted above about the timelines and messages?

Unfortunately no discussion of action taken in a support ticket or about other players accounts can be discussed in this thread. If you have any questions/concerns about a specific auction, please send in a support ticket under the Billing -> Character Transfers category.

Thats how they are.
They have 28 rules governing the character bazaar.
What they dont tell you is that that other "rules" apply - unwritten rules.



So even if you are within the 28 rules and some person comes online 9, 12, 24 hours or like 2 years later and sends the ISK higher than the last or even already accepted buyout offer, according to Senior GM XXXX, you cannot keep the ISK if he (the player) convinces the GM somehow, that he was under the impression he would still be able to get the character.
It happened to me, anyone saying anything different doesnt know what he is talking about.

So no matter what the rules state, apparantly CCP modifies those on the fly to fit their needs and they will action your account, remove the ISK, put you in the red without even having to give you an explanation.

The funny thing is, you can create petitions all you want. They dodge specific answers to specific questions.
Questions like "Which rule did I break" are answered with - as an example - Rule #19.
If you show proof that the auction / sale ended and that you therefor think Rule 19 is void and that you acted right in spending the ISK, they come up with something like "We simply do not allow any mistakes or errors made through the character bazaar to benefit another player".

Thats a catch-all folks, meaning, no matter what rules 1-28 say, it doesnt matter. No Mistakes, ever and it has previously not been made public, so here you have it. Welcome to the mainstream - wow population etc.
If an idiot still sends you ISK (and there aparently isnt a stop-time) even though the auction ended, you cannot keep the ISK.
Bullshit or not, thats how they operate right now. Anyone not believing this, evemail me and I will share my petition log.

.

I bought this toon from a guy who had multiple threads and never bothered to list them as sold. I logged on to my account today and someone sent me isk and a b/o offer. Is it my responsibility to send the isk back to the guy who sent the isk and offer after this toon was transferred to my account or is it the responsibility of the guy I bought this toon from because he ran multiple ads and never bothered updating them?

(CCP will be able to verify this account was sold)

Update: I went ahead and sent the money back .. seemed like the right thing to do. LoL

Thanks

Jorgu

account time is ONLY relevant to the account that its applied too and is non transferable.

chars themselves have no game time

does me adding notes to my open support ticket put it at the end of the 'cue'..

Also I've heard tickets take 4days or so, this true? (char sale/scam)

NM ticket being worked, within a day and a half.. yay!