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New dev blog: I don‘t always miss, but when I do...I do it with style.

First post
Author
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2011-11-18 14:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it.

Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Hylax Ciai
#2 - 2011-11-18 14:52:37 UTC
Good stuff Big smile

.

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-18 14:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?

I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.

We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit. Some Pro coding will embed it nicely into the current data (just steal one bit off some value that is being sent about each shot and use it for this), so the added amount of data would be zero.

0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code.
Ariane VoxDei
#4 - 2011-11-18 14:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ariane VoxDei
CCP Guard wrote:
CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it.

Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us.

Almost like the good old days in 2006, its like meeting a old friend :) Now wtb the same old engine trails. They were 'im going thi----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------s fast'. Or is that yet to be finalized?

Ok it take my praise back:
Quote:
The first shot when you start your turrets cycling will always appear to hit. We're aware that this is a silly exception to the behaviour, but it makes the feature more robust in the face of latency and there are some oddities in turret effect timing I bumped into whilst attempting a fix. We'll definitely be working on improving this.

Why did you go public (testsection does not count) before it was ironed out?
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2011-11-18 14:57:01 UTC
Ariane VoxDei wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it.

Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us.

Almost like the good old days in 2006, its like meeting a old friend :) Now wtb the same old engine trails. They were 'im going thi----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------s fast'. Or is that yet to be finalized?


There will be a dev blog on trails next week! :)

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
#6 - 2011-11-18 14:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Edwards
why do missiles hit when i tracking disrupt? BUG
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#7 - 2011-11-18 14:57:31 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?

I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.

We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit. Some Pro coding will embed it nicely into the current data (just steal one bit off some value that is being sent about each shot and use it for this), so the added amount of data would be zero.

0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code.

It's not just a single bit... You are mistaken in your assumption that the client receives information about every shot, rather than just when it starts/stops and the rate of fire.

Nyan

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-18 14:58:21 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?

I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.

We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit. Some Pro coding will embed it nicely into the current data (just steal one bit off some value that is being sent about each shot and use it for this), so the added amount of data would be zero.

0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code.

It's not just a single bit... You are mistaken in your assumption that the client receives information about every shot, rather than just when it starts/stops and the rate of fire.


Ah, that would make sense... Didn't think of that.
Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-11-18 15:00:15 UTC
GREAT!

Now add a hole on the ship whenever the shields are passed and we are complete :D

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

Ariane VoxDei
#10 - 2011-11-18 15:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ariane VoxDei
nvm dumb answer, in all the excitement i forgot to read properly
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
#11 - 2011-11-18 15:00:36 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Ariane VoxDei wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it.

Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us.

Almost like the good old days in 2006, its like meeting a old friend :) Now wtb the same old engine trails. They were 'im going thi----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------s fast'. Or is that yet to be finalized?


There will be a dev blog on trails next week! :)


The biking trail to the volcano that's exploding all the time?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-18 15:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Nice improvement to the game!

So... This miss effect will only happen correctly when someone shots at you and when you shot at someone? It is good enough!

But I think that you can solve the always hit effect of the fleet combat making it a %hit chance for every size, like:

Large weapon shooting frigate size 20% of the volley will hit
Large weapon shooting cruiser size 50% of the volley will hit
Large weapon shooting BS size 80% of the volley will hit

So there will be always a hit on the ship that justify its destruction and you will have the effect of the missing shots based on some sort of average hit-ratio... I think it will look nice...like a spray of bullets ( more real then the always hit effect )...and will not have to waste a single bit of information, all client side =D
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#13 - 2011-11-18 15:02:40 UTC
oooooohhh, pretty lights!!
CCP Choloepus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2011-11-18 15:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Choloepus
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?

I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it...


It's actually more like the client gets information when someone else starts to fire, and when they stop, but nothing inbetween. Individual damage or hit information packets aren't sent to you unless you're directly involved, your client just renders the pew-pew every few seconds until the other guy stops shooting.

It's not the single bit added to the payload that's the problem, it's that currently we don't send a packet at all unless absolutely necessary.

edit: beaten, thanks Rakshasa Taisab
Razin
The Scope
#15 - 2011-11-18 15:05:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
First page!

This is one of the best new features of this expansion (though its damn hard to choose!)!

CCP Choloepus wrote:
We'll definitely be working on improving this.

Very much support this!
Tork Norand
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-11-18 15:13:31 UTC

As a method of showing other ships in the fleet getting hit (or not), here's an idea....

10 seconds after a fight starts, and every 10 seconds after that, calculate how many shots that are fired actually hit. This will give a Hit Ratio.

Send the Hit Ratio out to the clients every 10 seconds or so, and let the clients randomly show that number of targets getting hit.

Each fleet gets its own Hit Ratio sent out....and the client does the work of just randomly picking members of that fleet to show the hits on. If you want finer detail, break it down by a weight on which target:
Total: 25% are hitting...of that:
-- Foe1: 10% (2.5% total)
-- Foe2: 20% (5% total)
-- Foe3: 70% (17.5% total....must be a logi pilot)

Then, as the client figures out that a gun was fired, it also knows the weighted chance that it has hit which target.

Technically speaking, this should fit into just one or two packets of data very easily.

--Tork. CEO and Herder of Cats.

Solhild
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-11-18 15:14:00 UTC
Could just make the other shots appear spread before hitting targets, some of the shot hits, other part misses?

More difficult with lasers I suppose but there's a solution waiting out there Big smile

Looks great on SISI now btw.
darius mclever
#18 - 2011-11-18 15:17:54 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?

I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it...


It's actually more like the client gets information when someone else starts to fire, and when they stop, but nothing inbetween. Individual damage or hit information packets aren't sent to you unless you're directly involved, your client just renders the pew-pew every few seconds until the other guy stops shooting.

It's not the single bit added to the payload that's the problem, it's that currently we don't send a packet at all unless absolutely necessary.

edit: beaten, thanks Rakshasa Taisab


how does this affect the client performance when you get primaried in a fleet fight?
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#19 - 2011-11-18 15:21:38 UTC
Thank you CCP, this change was a long time coming and clearly complex to fully implement, I hope you keep in on the front burner in the future. As someone who compared Eve to Donkey Kong (imagine if the barrels always looked like they hit you), I am quite happy about the change.

I for one wouldn't mind a 1/2 second delay as to graphical misses of not me, meaning if I am part of a fight and a ship shoots at my fleet mate, I don't mind missing that visual notification for 1/2 second to get it right. Just a quick thought.

best,
AG
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-11-18 15:22:32 UTC
This gets me to think about the often requested using ray casting to calculate shots fired (ie you could hit something else between you and your target) which would give a much more strategic game when it comes to fleet position and such.

However, as hard as it will be on the server to calculate all that ray casting, that isn't the main problem. The main problem is that every single shot on the grid would have to be transferred to every client for it to look good. That's just crazy.
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