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Incursion fittings and skills
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Cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#1 - 2013-11-04 07:11:45 UTC
If you are an FC and you had to pick between a mach with low skills and an RNI pilot with very good cruise missiles skills, would you still pick the mach pilot?

Overall I think the mach does less damage when the skills are not T2 focused, and while a mach can hit instantly isn't it better to have MORE dps on the battlefield?

I'm really curious what people think about this because I feel that people who fly a mach and a cookie cutter howitzer fit are more likely to be invited to fleet even though they may deal less DPS overall then a skilled missile boat pilot.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#2 - 2013-11-04 07:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
I have the benefit of Flying with ISN, and we only accept T2 Turrets so we know the skills are up to par, so I don’t have the problem of a 600DPS Mach asking to get in fleet. I know the top-end Arty Machs do just over 1000DPS at ranges from 17km out to 130km, and I am pretty sure a top-end RNI can match that but with a lag on application so for me the choice is easy, pick a Mach.

But most of the other communities do allow Meta 4 fits, for them I would say a RNI doing 1000dps would be a good choice if it wasn’t for the competitive nature Incursions have become. The Contests are hard to win, and losing one 16,000 damage hit from a BS with a 16s ROF is a big hit, the Machs don’t have this drawback if the target is killed the next one cycles up and they hit F1 again.

Incursion X's used to always be '1000dps Arty Mach' or '1400dps AutoMach Dualweb' or something to that effect, now they just X up 'Mach' and leave the Dps as a guess.

I don’t doubt the RNI can be a much better ship than many of the Machs being flown currently but not if there’s a contest for the site. And there is always a Contest.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#3 - 2013-11-04 23:46:03 UTC
For completion fleet I'd chose either.
(( TP's and Web's ))

When in a competition fleet it's the Mach.
(( TC's and TE's ))

I highly recommend you look into groups that run HQ's if you want to fly the RNI.
Cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#4 - 2013-11-05 06:00:42 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
For completion fleet I'd chose either.
(( TP's and Web's ))

When in a competition fleet it's the Mach.
(( TC's and TE's ))

I highly recommend you look into groups that run HQ's if you want to fly the RNI.




I fly both MACH and RNI, and yes I fly HQ sites. However, I am more likely to get a fleet invite with my mach, even though I am technically doing less damage overall. once in a while my guns hit perfectly and I might get higher damage then the RNI.

Obviously my skills are better with cruise missiles but mach is the flavor of the month for sniping. Nevermind that I can hit over 150km with an RNI, and hit harder. First strike, instant damage is king it seems. DPS not as important.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Dhar'aul
Timberton Holdings
#5 - 2013-11-05 09:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhar'aul
Goldiiee wrote:
I know the top-end Arty Machs do just over 1000DPS at ranges from 17km out to 130km


I'd love to have a look at the Mach arty fit that does 1k dps at 100k range.

EFT shows arty machs dps tapers off significantly after 50k, down from max ~1044 dps (incl drones), and reaches about 840 dps @ 100k on a all skills @ V, faction fit (below)


[Machariel, 1400-mach]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II

Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large Remote Shield Booster II

Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Ancillary Current Router I

Hobgoblin II x5


Implants used:
+6% dmg all turrets
+6% dmg large projectiles
+6% falloff

1x Tracking Link - Optimal/scimi used


The most I can seem to push is 860 dps @ 100k if using a perfect info booster, thus being able to remove the sebo and plant a second Tracking computer/optimal in it's place. Targeting range is max 117k in this case tho, but nothing a quick MWD cycle can't fix.


Of course, guns applying damage instantly means the missile's target may already be gone, and 1x-2x-heck->3x missile volleys mid-air will hit nothing...which is why missile boats are avoided for incs
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#6 - 2013-11-05 10:02:40 UTC
Dhar'aul wrote:
[I'd love to have a look at the Mach arty fit that does 1k dps at 100k range.

Pretty much the fit you have but drop the Shield Extender add a second tracking comp. and yes maxed OGB, Scimi Links and of course an FC that moves the fleet to the spawns so the farthest rat is 70km and closing, or spawns at 35km and dies.

I know I get hits at 100km pretty regular at 10k and my tower bash hits hang around 20k with a spike to 23k or better, but thats towers and not BS at range. I have no doubt my Mach does better than my RNI, I am also painfully aware that many Mach pilots in fleet are doing half that damage, due to poor skills.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-11-06 06:21:28 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
For completion fleet I'd chose either.
(( TP's and Web's ))

When in a competition fleet it's the Mach.
(( TC's and TE's ))

I highly recommend you look into groups that run HQ's if you want to fly the RNI.




I fly both MACH and RNI, and yes I fly HQ sites. However, I am more likely to get a fleet invite with my mach, even though I am technically doing less damage overall. once in a while my guns hit perfectly and I might get higher damage then the RNI.

Obviously my skills are better with cruise missiles but mach is the flavor of the month for sniping. Nevermind that I can hit over 150km with an RNI, and hit harder. First strike, instant damage is king it seems. DPS not as important.


Sniping with a missile boat is stupid. By the time the missile reach the target, it can be dead. You can also lose a few volley worth of damage to the same situation since you can;t even "count" the volley while not being alone in the site. Mach gets taken in fleet because it's a better ship to do the job.

Only time you won;t lose much of your DPS to wasted volley is if you are up close with the Vindi group but at that point, you are not bringning the same level of DPS so the vindi will be picked before your missile boat again.
Cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#8 - 2013-11-06 09:06:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
For completion fleet I'd chose either.
(( TP's and Web's ))

When in a competition fleet it's the Mach.
(( TC's and TE's ))

I highly recommend you look into groups that run HQ's if you want to fly the RNI.




I fly both MACH and RNI, and yes I fly HQ sites. However, I am more likely to get a fleet invite with my mach, even though I am technically doing less damage overall. once in a while my guns hit perfectly and I might get higher damage then the RNI.

Obviously my skills are better with cruise missiles but mach is the flavor of the month for sniping. Nevermind that I can hit over 150km with an RNI, and hit harder. First strike, instant damage is king it seems. DPS not as important.


Sniping with a missile boat is stupid. By the time the missile reach the target, it can be dead. You can also lose a few volley worth of damage to the same situation since you can;t even "count" the volley while not being alone in the site. Mach gets taken in fleet because it's a better ship to do the job.

Only time you won;t lose much of your DPS to wasted volley is if you are up close with the Vindi group but at that point, you are not bringning the same level of DPS so the vindi will be picked before your missile boat again.


As I pointed out at the beginning of the post, I am aware that missiles are DEAD last to be picked for incursions.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.