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Drones in PvE
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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-10-26 14:10:06 UTC
Vincent Wright wrote:


as i said, pulling back from 50-20km once u see a drone get a dent in its shield does not save it in a L4 combat situation, most of the times.




You shouldn't be sending drones that far away. If the target is 50km away, sentries can hit it easily. Mobile drones are for killing things close up. Lights are for killing frigates that close range before you can shoot them, mediums are for burning down cruisers, destroyers and bc's that try to fight close, and heavies are for those rare missions like AE that have close orbiting battleships.

Your failure to assess the situation properly and adapt is not CCPs fault. In the extraordinarily unlikely event that everything turns to shoot the same drone, and they all manage to get lucky and hit it, yes it will be destroyed. Tough. There is always an element of risk, even in something as easy and mind numbing as level 4 missions.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-10-26 14:19:09 UTC
No but the **** poor drone interface, **** poor and unreliable information available to the drone commander IS the responsibility of CCP.

Regularly I'll pull a drone in, it has a sliver of shield left. I relaunch later and all the armor is gone. The drone dropped off UI at full armor but somewhere it lost the lot.


Non sentry drones are terrible for PVE next to every other weapon system in terms of return over effort or reward over risk. Certainly one can adapt, simply don't use anything but sentries/point blank lights. I don't think a weapon system gathering dust is a good thing though. I direct you to my earlier point - that this character, as a mission toon, has all but abandoned drones because they're not worth the massive hassle for their DPS should speak volumes. Nobody, nobody min/maxes like mission bears and they are just NOT worth it.

I'd rather shoot lasers at angels.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2013-10-26 17:17:03 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
I see someone trying to use a close range weapon system at long range.

Why should drones be a system used exclusively at short ranges? It makes sense when you talk about blasters and so for the simple reason they'll stop hitting past a certain point.

For drones this is a pretty bold statement to make considering they can fly out to 100km+ and shoot stuff there just as well as they would do 1km away. This 'weapon' system is effective at any range really.

Because with the exception of sentries drones are designed to be a short range weapon system. Just because you "can" get scout drones out to 100km doesn't mean that you should. That's what sentry drones are for. Stop trying to use the wrong kind of drone for the situation.

If scout drones were truly effective at any range you wouldn't be complaining about them. Q.E.D.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-10-26 17:30:49 UTC
Sorry to point it out, but 15-30kms isnt exactly what I consider "long" range.

The 10-15km effective range of mobile drones is overly short. And scout drones are effective at any range, 10-15km/s warriors can cover distances fast (if you want an extreme), but they simply die to fast, too easily and without sufficient warning to the drone pilot to do anything about it, save not use them at all - which is hardly a solution. 100km is a bit silly yes - but it's just as silly as not being able to deploy a medium drone passed 10km unless you dont want it back.


The "go sentry or go home" approach is a bit disappointing.
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#45 - 2013-10-26 21:58:52 UTC
I have often thought a range increase is warranted for drones, while sticking to current orbit range.
That coupled with a real speed increase would make for some balance.
Of course drones could use a little more options as a weapon system.

Like: Setting them to attack the next target before current target is destroyed, so you don't lose dps to 1 sec server ticks.
So 2 targets, first and follow up.

Sentries I've always felt need to be retractable form a further range.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#46 - 2013-10-26 22:35:47 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Vincent Wright wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Vincent Wright wrote:
as i said, pulling back from 50-20km once u see a drone get a dent in its shield does not save it in a L4 combat situation, most of the times.

I think I see the problem.


please describe what you see

I see someone trying to use a close range weapon system at long range.

That explains why they get the short range of 40km with basic skills.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#47 - 2013-10-26 22:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kosetzu
Soo... Because you refuse to watch your drones you think the game mechanics are bad?

I have not lost a single drone in missions after the change, because I watch for when they stop shooting ME, and pull drones back in and relaunch them once the aggro is back on me again. Even with ships that relies on drones alone for damage and uses no EWAR I have no real difficulty with this.

If you send your drones out 70km to pick off a target then of course it may die on the return trip, but that is a piloting error, not bad mechanics. Light drones will almost never get targeted by cruisers and up, so make them chew through the closest frigates and then swap them with mediums and repeat that for cruisers if they are still alive. I have no problems with sending drones to 50km and out without loosing them, but all the small ships you want to kill will come flying straight at you and orbit within 10km so your drones doesn't need to travel all over the place to kill them, or return to the dronebay.

I agree the delay in drone actions and health displays should be worked on, but I still think that if you can't manage your drones now, why would it be all that different if it reacted quicker? Just go use Auto-Target missiles if you find it too much work to manage what you send your drones after, and have smartbombs against frigates.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-10-27 11:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Betting you're using sentries.

If you're not, then well played (though I have a hard time believing you as I tried to make them work and watched them with enough OCD I was basically twitch gaming and when a pack of elites webbed one, there's nothing can save it. But maybe you're the luckiest player in New Eden, or hardly use them.). You can't disagree non sentries are remotely worth the trouble I don't think.

I'm well aware of when I lose drones because not paying attention (usually drunk/marketeering) and when I lose drones because there was nothing I can do. I know this because when I deploy, sorry, deployED non sentries I watched them like a hawk.

These days it's sentries/precision cruises/blap at range. Less hassle, less drama more cost efficient. I can quite honestly say they could remove the drone bay on my CNR/Mach and I'd not notice.
Kaelnor Heidan
Supermassive Singularity
#49 - 2013-10-27 12:10:44 UTC
Yes, drones are somewhat useable. That doesn't mean they are not a pita.

Elite frigates ? Hope you have 125m3 drone bay of hobgoblins.

With all these threads about drones, CCP is aware that drones need a serious overhaul but it would take an entire "expansion" worth of content.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-10-27 14:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
As said previously, faction sentries are viable until you can use T2. garde/warden for different range. swapping is near instant.

and since you're in a myrmidon, you're on the way to dominix already, the entry level BS drone platform. slap a MJD and all the drone mods on it (omnis may not be crucial anymore, i heard) and you can blap everything from 100km away. keep lights to kill any frigates or spider drones that get close. if things get to hot MJD away and repeat.

that's the way.

forums.  serious business.
Vincent Wright
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-10-27 14:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Wright
There is nothing new to add here, everything has been said, all the info and logic is there...
For those actually addressing the subject: Thx for adding to the subject :)

P.S.: I was never asking for advice, thank you
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-10-27 14:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
Wrong ship/fit for the job at hand, simple as that. Drone aggro changes was needed, even if I don't like them... It makes drone boats have to pay attention without making them unviable, like other weapon systems.

I use lights and sentries constantly,perfectly viable. Stop sucking :/

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Vincent Wright
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-10-27 15:26:30 UTC
Desudes wrote:
Wrong ship/fit for the job at hand, simple as that. Drone aggro changes was needed, even if I don't like them... It makes drone boats have to pay attention without making them unviable, like other weapon systems.

I use lights and sentries constantly,perfectly viable. Stop sucking :/


Thank you for one more totaly unqualified,unrelated and unnecessary comment.
Please interwebs gief moAr.
Maxx Phobos
#54 - 2013-11-04 06:38:59 UTC
I think the drone changes are more annoying than anything , I run Guristas missions mostly with Golem/CNR so maybe its because my drones are un bonused but I notice after killing all BS, BC's and Cruisers and let the drones out to finish off the small stuff half the time I lose one or nearly do before they can even reach a frig within 5-6k of me.. My drone skills are near max except ( Sentry , mining , ewar and gallente / caldari / Minni drone specializations at 4 )

Now I haven't flown a drone boat lately but I can imagine if they are having similar issues its about time they gave all elite frigs Defenders , damps and Jammers to give equal challenge to other weapons systems... I guess saying that i'm glad i don't use drones that often because I never liked the interface.. well and with distractions like Wife aggro and rampant kids running around my house I could never fully divert my attention to them. ( Uber tanked missile boats FTW ) .
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#55 - 2013-11-04 06:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Vincent Wright wrote:
Consequences for me in PvE (solo L4s in Myrm) because of the NPC drone aggro changes:

Never use Scout Drones for what they are actually for: Frigs (Instead kill all the frigs with guns first and lose dps)
Never use Medium Drones for what they are actually for: Cruisers and BCs (instead use scout drones and lose dps)
Only use Heavy Drones when there are around 3 BS left and be careful. (use mediums instead, lose dps)

Sudden Drone aggro switches from ranges 50km-20km result in a lost drone and there is nothing you can do about that.

The People you wanted to hurt (afk mission runners/bots) use Centries and those are completely unaffected by the changes because they effin pop stuff from 100km away...

I will be in a Centry/Gun boat the next days, i just thought ill be nice to the other newer players that have to rely on everything but Centries and tell you what i experience.

It adds 0 to the gameplay, its basically just a giant nerf for pre centry pve droneboats.
Wich wasnt nessesary since non droneboats in the same brackets dish out equal dps without drone transit times.

For null sec pvp gozus: Please i know you dont L4, you dont need it, dont comment on it.
For "make the game harder" people: there is no workaround that isnt cutting dps. its not a difficulty issue.



wtf is a centry


A hundred verses in Nostradamus' prophecies.

Vincent Wright wrote:
Desudes wrote:
Wrong ship/fit for the job at hand, simple as that. Drone aggro changes was needed, even if I don't like them... It makes drone boats have to pay attention without making them unviable, like other weapon systems.

I use lights and sentries constantly,perfectly viable. Stop sucking :/


Thank you for one more totaly unqualified,unrelated and unnecessary comment.
Please interwebs gief moAr.


I use light drones and sentry drones all the time. Mediums and heavies generally suck but I can use them also. Train your support skills and pay attention. Drones are totally viable in PvE in their current state.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#56 - 2013-11-05 17:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Chandaris
Fit an ECM Burst II (or meta equivalent) to your ship, activate it as soon as you land in the mission.

Presto, like magic AI aggro suddenly works exactly how it used to before the changes.

Confirmed and tested to death a hundred thousand times.

Could cause bad things to happen in highsec .. dunno, I only pve in lowsec and i get an aggression timer if a burst the beacon so could maybe make concord do their thing?
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