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Problems and bugs during massive PvP fleet battles: can we hope for solution?
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ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-11-03 17:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ElQuirko
Here's an idea: We turn every system into 1.0 sec and make the game 1v1 consensual pvp.


No? Then quit whining about what you've got. EVE is revolutionary; I can remember a fleet fight a good three years ago where I went to cycle the guns on my ship, the click of "F1" locked up my client and I had to turn my computer off and on again. Woke up in Bourynes. Problems today are small fry compared to the problems of the past. My life for whoever coded TiDi.

EDIT: I seriously cannot believe you tried to compare CCP to a supercorporation such as Google in question 3. Let's talk about budget, shall we? 450k accounts are not quite enough to field the kind of intercontinental hardware Google has.

Dodixie > Hek
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#42 - 2013-11-03 18:39:03 UTC
If people don't like the new TiDi, i suggest you go get into a fight with someone and then press and hold down the power button on your computer. This will accurately simulate the old system for you!

Enjoy!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#43 - 2013-11-03 19:00:05 UTC
Oh, this thread again. Roll

TiDi is the "fix" as a "true solution" is not within CCP's grasp at this time.

Trust me...

It is better than black-screening.

Or freezes.

Or only being forced into horrific 100v100 battles.

Or any number of smug things I can post here. Big smile

Have a nice day!!!

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#44 - 2013-11-03 19:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: JIeoH Mocc
At times I get the feeling that people can't read.

No one said that TiDi is a bad thing, that it should be removed to be replaced by lags or any other nonsense people are replying to.
What we do say, is that current TiDi mechanism at its current cap is not performing well enough to accommodate the strain caused by large quantities of players, thus introducing the proverbial lags on top of the TiDi.
It's a fact. Trivial solution would be to TiDi MOAR.
Less trivial would be to catch up to the demand and upgrade hardware/software.

No need to get aggravated nor exited, as a consumer of a product of dubious quality that I want to see improved, I firmly believe that it's my duty to %female canine% on the forums in addition to petitioning the issue from all my accounts.

Carry on.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#45 - 2013-11-03 21:27:24 UTC
When the node could handle 1000 man fights, the blocs brought 2000. When the node could handle 2000 man fights, the blocs brought 3000.

Tidi is good, certainly better than the old system.

But maybe, just maybe, it might be good to create mechanics/ incentives that encourage sov fights to happen across several systems/nodes simultaneously. Y'know, kinda like real wars have fronts instead of one single meatgrinder.

Give the hamsters on 3 nodes a mild case of arrhythmia, rather than making all of the hamsters on 1 node go tachycardic. Blink
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-11-03 21:52:32 UTC
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
At times I get the feeling that people can't read.

No one said that TiDi is a bad thing, that it should be removed to be replaced by lags or any other nonsense people are replying to.
What we do say, is that current TiDi mechanism at its current cap is not performing well enough to accommodate the strain caused by large quantities of players, thus introducing the proverbial lags on top of the TiDi.
It's a fact. Trivial solution would be to TiDi MOAR.
Less trivial would be to catch up to the demand and upgrade hardware/software.

No need to get aggravated nor exited, as a consumer of a product of dubious quality that I want to see improved, I firmly believe that it's my duty to %female canine% on the forums in addition to petitioning the issue from all my accounts.

Carry on.


I would agree with you if you were giving answers instead of demanding the impossible. You're basically saying that progress doesn't matter, only the end solution does. Do you understand how massive CCP's system is? Can you comprehend the complexity of? Or fathom the cost in money and manpower just to maintain it? And yet they haven't maintained it at all. Instead they have steadily improved their product to the point that you can come on here and complain that 3000 people fighting over stresses the servers. But still, you're so ungrateful that you cannot even see the triumphs behind the simple act of being able to have that many people in one place. Yes it would be awesome to have it run in real time with 50,000 people fighting in a single system, but that doesn't have any bearing on reality. The reality is that until we develop FTL data transmission there will always be a limit to how many people can be on grid at any one time. So please, start developing that for us instead of demanding CCP do it for you.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#47 - 2013-11-03 22:24:20 UTC
Getting very emotional here, I see.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#48 - 2013-11-03 22:32:25 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
When the node could handle 1000 man fights, the blocs brought 2000. When the node could handle 2000 man fights, the blocs brought 3000.

Tidi is good, certainly better than the old system.

But maybe, just maybe, it might be good to create mechanics/ incentives that encourage sov fights to happen across several systems/nodes simultaneously. Y'know, kinda like real wars have fronts instead of one single meatgrinder.

Give the hamsters on 3 nodes a mild case of arrhythmia, rather than making all of the hamsters on 1 node go tachycardic. Blink


Here's were penalties for fleet stacking could hit, forcing to split fleets and spread them over different systems and thus lowering the load on individual nodes.

"Buy more, code more and raise the cap again" is not something i want to see done with my money, because no matter how high the cap, everyone will try to have more ships than the other, until the new cap buckles.

And lest remember, CCP refuses to increase population cap in Jita, which would be more useful to 90% of the players than buying top notch hardware to reinforce nodes for those once-a-month big battles. What?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Antir
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-11-03 23:13:46 UTC
At those numbers you are at (probalby past) the limits of what TiDi can do and it is still much better than the old lag fights. People couldn't be repped because they were getting alpha'd but alpha looks less than instant in heavy TiDi. As for stuff not cycling you need to look into proper lag management, reps and weapons can be forced to work every few cycles but prop mods have a habit of getting stuck on. As long as sov comes down to one timer that is all or noting this is the reality, deal with it or go do something else.
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#50 - 2013-11-04 02:19:35 UTC
Just limit the sizes of coalitions and alliances. Inject an element of risk with more than two teams. Not sure how a three thousand person free for all would work out but if it cuts down the size of the blobs then the problem is solved.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#51 - 2013-11-04 02:24:13 UTC
try putting your eve settings to low graphic settings, it usually helps alot in big fights.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#52 - 2013-11-04 05:50:37 UTC
Nothing to do with graphics.
I'll say again, for the benefit of the thick -
10% TiDi is not enough to handle the amount of events generated by such numbers.
TiDi moar please.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2013-11-04 09:39:23 UTC
I do believe TiDi can go below 10% it's just not indicated. Battle of 6VDT had massive issues for instance, despite being on a reinforced node. Target locks went beyond usual time + tidi compensation, we had a cyno stay lit despite the module not cycling anymore.

Despite all that though, it wasn't a node crash or black screen on jump in so things are improving.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-11-04 09:56:33 UTC
solution: Small gang

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#55 - 2013-11-04 09:57:07 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
I do believe TiDi can go below 10% it's just not indicated


“It actually slows down time in the system to make sure the server calls and responses are both carried through and done in the correct order. In this case, as people jumped in it slowed down gradually until it hit the cap at 10%, meaning a pretty slow experience, but one that is still meaningful from a game play and 'tactical' perspective.” CCP Veritas

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/planning-for-war-how-the-eve-online-servers-deal-with-a-3000-person-battle

Unless everybody lies (c) , of course. I'd like to hear an official rep though i hardly expect anyone to bother.
Bo Bojangles
Interstellar Renegades
#56 - 2013-11-04 15:08:42 UTC
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
...the game was not played as it should have been, with clear indications of problems that the very introduction of TiDi was supposed to alleviate


FYP.
David Kir
Errantry Armaments
Empire of Decadence.
#57 - 2013-11-04 16:19:50 UTC
I think TiDi is working pretty well, BUT.

Events like the 6VDT battle are a huge selling point for EVE, and CCP uses them as advertising.

It's hard not to feel disappointed when you join a game for the "epic" 1k vs 1k battles and you find out how slow and time-consuming they really are.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-11-04 16:46:32 UTC
Nassau Adtur wrote:

Here is what I have - http://clip2net.com/s/65RuY2


Your video core and memory seems a little slow and maybe more system memory might help also.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#59 - 2013-11-04 17:26:51 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I was in that fight last night flying logi and to be honest it got to the point where I might as well not been there.

That was sort of the joke of 6VDT. CCP sends out all these press releases about this huge battle, while the players are absolutely miserable, stuck in an 8 hour tidi mess that was the worst playtime experience I have ever had in a video game.

They add tidi, which allows the battles to scale up, which makes the game worse, then celebrate tidi as some great solution.

They need to fix the battle mechanics that create these massive, miserable fights if they won't address the capacity to scale.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#60 - 2013-11-04 18:24:28 UTC
Tuggboat wrote:
Just limit the sizes of coalitions and alliances. Inject an element of risk with more than two teams. Not sure how a three thousand person free for all would work out but if it cuts down the size of the blobs then the problem is solved.


CCP already "limits" the size of coalitions by giving exactly 0 support to them. Tell us more about how players will forget how to work together for a common goal if alliances were smaller too.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
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