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Getting scanned down in null-sec
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Lucky Mike Asura
Atlas Corp
#1 - 2013-11-03 22:15:27 UTC
Relatively new to moving around in null sec, so I'm not surprised I got killed :-) I'd like to learn from my mistakes and improve my chances of not getting discovered, so I'm hoping people can shed some light on where I went wrong in my recent death.

I was flying a covert-ops ship (Helios) in null-sec, scanning down relic and data sites. I was running a slightly modified version of this fit:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66340-Null-Sec-Anti-Probing-Helios.html

which should be pretty tricky (but not impossible) to scan down? I was exploring a relic site when someone showed up in local (I was alone initially) and of course I assumed they would start scanning me down and I should probably cloak... so my first mistake was that I waited a bit too long and continued hacking my current container. Next time I'll just immediately cloak and wait for them to leave or get out of there :-)

What surprised me is how quickly this person was able to warp directly onto me, immediately deploy a mobile warp disruptor/bubble, and of course at that stage with my ship, it was over. As soon as they came into local, I was hammering on the directional scanner, set to maximum distance 360 degrees. I assumed I would pick up some combat probes in my d-scanner as a warning sign before they'd be able to warp on me, but nothing ever showed up. Was I using the d-scanner incorrectly, or is it possible to scan someone down without your probes ever being picked up on the scanner? Another thing I considered, maybe they managed to scan me down using a directional scanner and warped to me that way? It seemed unlikely, given how fast it happened, but I suppose they could have been cloaked and tracked me down that way. A third possibility, perhaps they already had the relic site bookmarked, cloaked and warped there, then slowly moved towards me and uncloaked when they were right on top of me.

In general, when I'm flying a ship that's not fitted for combat, should I just run away as soon as anyone shows up in local?



Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2013-11-03 22:19:24 UTC
So you admittedly got greedy and didn't cloak up, yet you wonder what you did wrong....





Yeah...the problem here is totally nullsec.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-11-03 22:23:40 UTC
they probably scanned the site down already. was it a covops fit ship? they can move at maximum normal ship velocity cloaked.

forums.  serious business.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#4 - 2013-11-03 22:26:09 UTC
Might have had the site prescanned or you just missed the probes. A good scanner can scan you down in seconds with the infomation you already get from Dscan.
Ryhss
#5 - 2013-11-03 22:27:32 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
So you admittedly got greedy and didn't cloak up, yet you wonder what you did wrong....





Yeah...the problem here is totally nullsec.

Um, he never blamed anyone but himself. Try being constructive, not an asshat, next time. OP, cloak up right away next time. Make multiple safe spots as well.

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
To Be Me
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-11-03 22:29:01 UTC
Battleclinic... Thats why you died.

thumbs up if you like :))))
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2013-11-03 22:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Some players will prowl through a chain of systems scanning down everything - even ping the API to look for new NPC kills in the systems in the area they are hunting in (its updated either every 30 or 60 minutes can't remember which) - between that and monitoring players in space stats on the map they will see roughly where people are active. They'd probably already got the site BM'd.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-11-03 22:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
since (IIRC) cosmic anomalies/signatures only spawn within 8AU of celestials they may have figured out which one you were at (if there's an uncloaked helios on d-scan it's fairly obvious where it's gonna be) launched core probes at a safe out of d-scan range and then dropped them on to the celestial and dialled the relic site in quick. i've pulled that off in a wh before.

forums.  serious business.
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
#9 - 2013-11-03 22:34:27 UTC
Just subbed back up a few days ago and I can already tell probing was buffed to hell and back.

Pretty much all the tedium of scanning was removed leaving you to dump probes and scan as long as you have all max skills.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#10 - 2013-11-03 22:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
it's possible to launch combat probes off to the side of the solar system, dscan down the distance of the the ship, then bring probes in quickly, scan and immediately recall them. a good probing skill pilot lets probes show on scan for around 8 seconds iirc. the scan overlay makes it easy to pinpoint the signature as there's usually only 1 or 2 in system anyway, rather than having to bring up the map and use spatial awareness to get the triangulation. i did say that Odyssey was more of a pirate expansion than a exploration expansion before it came out.
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
#11 - 2013-11-03 22:55:22 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
it's possible to launch combat probes off to the side of the solar system, dscan down the distance of the the ship, then bring probes in quickly, scan and immediately recall them. a good probing skill pilot lets probes show on scan for around 8 seconds iirc. the scan overlay makes it easy to pinpoint the signature as there's usually only 1 or 2 in system anyway, rather than having to bring up the map and use spatial awareness to get the triangulation. i did say that Odyssey was more of a pirate expansion than a exploration expansion before it came out.


Been away for a while and this is my feeling on the probe mechanics.

Good god its simple as burping to scan down whatever the hell you want.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#12 - 2013-11-03 22:57:18 UTC
I leave the cheese out occasionally, particularly if I know someone I want to kill is going to come through, although its usually only npc corp players that actually bite, its a lot harder to entice a good neut into it.

You can cargo scan the site to make sure you aren't leaving them a tower to ninja, and thus far the best drop I've had from a heron has been 67m of the 110m he had in cargo on the km. From another point of view if a hacker wants to bring me the contents of all the sigs along the pipe and dump at my feet, who am I to argue.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-11-03 23:08:08 UTC
Lucky Mike Asura wrote:
In general, when I'm flying a ship that's not fitted for combat, should I just run away as soon as anyone shows up in local?


Well cloak up at least. In a cloaky frigate your plan can't be to wait to see who shows up on grid. As soon as you think a situation might get to be bad at some indeterminate point in time, cloak. Check things out while cloaked. If in nullsec, you can check out the guy's killboard. See what he flys and what he kills. If he hunts T2 frigs for sport, it should show up there. If the killboard shows him to be Carebear Chuck, then still stay cloaked for a bit. See what he does. If it seems safe enough, maybe go hack a can. But probably wait.

In your situation, you are the rabbit in a forest with foxes. Act accordingly.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#14 - 2013-11-03 23:11:27 UTC
The real problem here is you're able to use a covert ops to do null sec exploration. They should have left the rats in the sites to make them more of a challenge like before. Now they are so flooded with anyone and everyone, making them practically worthless doing.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Rogue Drone Recovery Syndicate
#15 - 2013-11-04 00:33:53 UTC
covert ops cloak is yer friend
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-11-04 01:00:04 UTC
Posting in an "I didn't know about Interdiction Nullifiers and CovOps cloak T3's" thread....

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#17 - 2013-11-04 02:17:57 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
The real problem here is you're able to use a covert ops to do null sec exploration. They should have left the rats in the sites to make them more of a challenge like before. Now they are so flooded with anyone and everyone, making them practically worthless doing.


My sites are typically worth 20 - 30m for 15m of hacking. Its not at all unreasonable, especially since I'm yet to get a tower, and a tower is a big payday.

Also the point to adding this to the covops role is that it teaches people that covops are pretty mobile, and not lost that often in lowsec or null merely moving about, which teaches people that low and nullsec isn't that scary, and that exploring (as in visiting, not in probing) is something that they can in fact do.

It really does address the buy a first battleship, go to low and lose it on the first gate syndrome.
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#18 - 2013-11-04 05:50:33 UTC
As the above posters have mentioned it is a common practice in low and null to probe out all sites in your locality, run the best ones and save the BMs for the others, usually with a note of the nearest celestial after the name of the site.

If someone appears in local you run a dscan. If they happen to be near a celestial that you scanned a sig near, you can warp straight to them, often before they have become alert. This works even better if you use a recon or covops as not only will the target not see any probes, but they will not see a ship either until it is too late.

As the person running the site paranoia is your friend. You have a cloak, but it's no good if you don't use it. Even if the loot would be worth many times more than your ship, you have to bear in mind that you will probably lose both if you hang around. In my opinion it is better to be cloaked and watch the other guy steal the loot you were hoping for than try to grab it and lose your ship, the loot, and the time it takes to reship and travel.

It's a bit different if you are in a ship that can fight, but if you are using something purely pve there is no sense in allowing yourself to be a target. You hit the nail on the head with your comment. If you aren't prepared to fight, it is the only sensible solution.

Quote:
Next time I'll just immediately cloak and wait for them to leave or get out of there :-)
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#19 - 2013-11-04 05:51:53 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Posting in an "I didn't know about Interdiction Nullifiers and CovOps cloak T3's" thread....


I see your smug "Posting in an........thread" comment, and raise you a...

Posting in a stealth "Nerf Null" thread.

Also, a stealth "Nerf Cloaking" thread.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Lucky Mike Asura
Atlas Corp
#20 - 2013-11-05 20:41:19 UTC
Thanks for all the constructive feedback everyone, really appreciate it! This has given me a better understanding of the kind of tactics people are using in null-sec, and also how much easier it is to scan someone down undetected than I had originally thought. Makes me think about working my way towards one day using those same tactics on someone else, sounds like a lot of fun ;-)
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