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Remove security status hits for fights in FW plexes
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Violet Crumble
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1 - 2013-11-03 05:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
Security status adjustments for aggression are rightly there as a penalty for unjustified aggression against another player.

However, FW plexes are there specifically as a mechanic to help swing the balance of power in a region and to earn loyatly points.

A big part of swinging the balance of power is through combat and everyone entering a plex knows in advance that a fight might take place.

It seems crazy to then penalise the pilot that takes the first action, and especially so with LP farmers.

On many, many occasions now a character of mine has gone to a FW plex for a fight, found one and then been penalised sec status for being the first to take action, even though decisive, early action can be a big help in ensuring a win.

I'm also noticing that a number of LP farmers are now waiting for someone to agress before they warp off in their triple stabbed incursus, or atron, or other farming fit ship.

The pilot who is there to use the plex for a large part of what it is intended for ends up being hit with a sec status adjustment and the farmer runs away with no impact for their rubbish play.

So, my idea suggestion is to remove sec status hits for initiating combat in FW plexes.

I have no problem with going suspect, although I imagine the whole process is tied into the crimewatch system and may not be easy to separate out. In that case, so be it, make FW plexes free-for-all fight zones where players who try to pvp are not negatively impacted and either have to grind out ratting or plexes to recover status, or go turn in tags and play ISK.

Where's the balance for the LP Farmer. Warps off with no impact and can come back and keep farming LPs while everyone else is off gaining status back again.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2013-11-03 06:10:15 UTC
It's FW, not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you don't want the sec hit, don't shoot first.

Being a FW plex should not exclude you from the normal mechanics of the game.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Violet Crumble
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3 - 2013-11-03 06:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
Mag's wrote:
It's FW, not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you don't want the sec hit, don't shoot first.

Being a FW plex should not exclude you from the normal mechanics of the game.


Oh yeah, we should just let the LP Farmers continue to sit on the button and not take any action.

As a Gallente pilot who enters a plex to fight off a Caldari LP farmer, how have I done something wrong by acting? I've done exactly what my faction expects.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2013-11-03 07:37:46 UTC
Its obvious your actual issue is with stabbed farmers. No one says you cannot shoot them, but if you are not at war with them or have any kind of kill rights, then you must accept the consequences.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#5 - 2013-11-03 10:46:46 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's FW, not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you don't want the sec hit, don't shoot first.

Being a FW plex should not exclude you from the normal mechanics of the game.


Oh yeah, we should just let the LP Farmers continue to sit on the button and not take any action.

As a Gallente pilot who enters a plex to fight off a Caldari LP farmer, how have I done something wrong by acting? I've done exactly what my faction expects.

If you are not affiliated with any militia - you are faction-neutral and NOT Gallente pilot. Your pedigree has nothing to do with this matter. Join FW properly and shoot those farmers without standing loss.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#6 - 2013-11-03 15:05:46 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Oh yeah, we should just let the LP Farmers continue to sit on the button and not take any action.
As a Gallente pilot who enters a plex to fight off a Caldari LP farmer, how have I done something wrong by acting? I've done exactly what my faction expects.


If you are neutral and shoot a Caldari pilot plexing you're indirectly helping Gallente militia. And you're doing it without offering yourself as legitimate WT for Caldari. So to counter this a legitimate Caldari militia pilot should get a security hit.

Basically you're asking for THEM, legitimate militia pilots, to get the security hit for doing their legitimate FW job.

If you want to shoot Caldari just join Gallente militia and get all the advantages and risks (being a FW WT ) related to this.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-11-03 16:00:57 UTC
Mag's wrote:
It's FW, not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you don't want the sec hit, don't shoot first.

Being a FW plex should not exclude you from the normal mechanics of the game.

except in lowsec, he who shoots second is ******, and the faction warfare plexes are advertised on the freakin overview as a sight for militarized engagement, meaning anyone entering is obviously assumed hostile and a target, which means it SHOULD be a free-fire zone on anyone who enters. ******* hated having to be a "negative security pirate" just for playing FW because 90% of the people who will actually come in to stop you running a PLEX arent from the other militia.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-11-03 16:02:50 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Violet Crumble wrote:
Oh yeah, we should just let the LP Farmers continue to sit on the button and not take any action.
As a Gallente pilot who enters a plex to fight off a Caldari LP farmer, how have I done something wrong by acting? I've done exactly what my faction expects.


If you are neutral and shoot a Caldari pilot plexing you're indirectly helping Gallente militia. And you're doing it without offering yourself as legitimate WT for Caldari. So to counter this a legitimate Caldari militia pilot should get a security hit.

Basically you're asking for THEM, legitimate militia pilots, to get the security hit for doing their legitimate FW job.

If you want to shoot Caldari just join Gallente militia and get all the advantages and risks (being a FW WT ) related to this.


the problem in my experience isnt the militias attacking eachother, its that 90% of the time, the people your warping in on, or are being warped in on by arent even IN faction warfare, like 80-90% of FW space participants are neutral pirates.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#9 - 2013-11-03 16:06:18 UTC
Sec status loss is designed to be a time/ISK sink. You want to shoot other players, fine. But it's going to cost you time spent killing red crosses, or ISK for tags.

Risk/reward, action/reaction, decision/consequence.

You have to remember - the various FACTIONS are engaged in Faction Warfare - but FW is NOT sanctioned by CONCORD, and they assign/remove sec status. The various factions only assign standing.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#10 - 2013-11-03 16:13:21 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Sec status loss is designed to be a time/ISK sink. You want to shoot other players, fine. But it's going to cost you time spent killing red crosses, or ISK for tags.

Risk/reward, action/reaction, decision/consequence.

You have to remember - the various FACTIONS are engaged in Faction Warfare - but FW is NOT sanctioned by CONCORD, and they assign/remove sec status. The various factions only assign standing.

How is Fw not sanctioned by CONCORD? The last time I checked opposing militias could emgage in high sec without being concorded.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#11 - 2013-11-03 16:15:33 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

hated having to be a "negative security pirate" just for playing FW because 90% of the people who will actually come in to stop you running a PLEX arent from the other militia.


Is not what the OP is saying and not what the thread is about.

OP say that a neutral should be free to shoot without penality a FW pilot. Not the countrary.

Basically FW pilots, in the OP idea, should be free to shoot by anyone without the usual penalities.

Again: if one wants to be involved in FW should simply join it: taking not only the advantage (freedom to shoot enemy militia without penalities) but also the risks (freedom for them to shoot back).