Intergalactic Summit

Issues which would never have been there in the first place if our system hadn't been invaded.

And then all our other systems hadn't also been invaded.

Yeah, that's Heth's fault, sure, but the State has to bear some responsibility for Heth at some point.

I have a hard time remembering anything longer than a few hours ago, and I can remember this argument being made previously on these boards more than once. Must we do this every time?

None of which would have happened if.... Ah, you know what, if you haven't understood even the bare and basic fact that the bombardment and invasion of home and the ethnic cleansing that followed is not ancient history for us, then there's really no point talking about this any further.

Yes, exactly. That is the problem with the current aims of the Federation.


Indeed, the security status remains the same, with the Federal Navy gone. That is hardy a harsh criticism of Mordu's Legion. As for the Sansha, they've been a major problem in the cluster for a good while now, with capsuleers being the ones to deal with their incursions.


The roots of the conflict between the State and Federation are of course long and much debated, even in this very thread. Looking past the current conflict, let me ask why could the Caldari simply not leave the Federation and become their own sovereign power? Why did the Hueremont Doctrine have to label them as criminals to be hounded, instead of past allies to establish strong links with? This succeeded in breaking the unity of the human sphere for good, instead of seeking to do the work for which the Federation existed and to repair the damage done. Perhaps the sign that some of its member-states were seceding or considering to secede was a sign that changes needed to be made in order to address their concerns and become more inclusive, instead of trying to retain signatories through military and punitive measures.

Changes were made, but instead of addressing the issues at hand the Federation became a power for itself and thus more centralized. The influence of member-states was diminished as a threat and dealing with external entities through military means became par for the course instead of attempting to create the harmonious galactic society that had been its driving vision. The baby had been thrown out with the bath water.

Of course, this is all ancient history by now, but the problem is that there seems to be a commitment in the Federation to continuing the age old rivalry with the Caldari by clinging to the mistakes of the past, instead of a commitment to bringing the conflict to an end.


By and large I wait to see this critical deconstruction of the posts made. Some of Andreus' points were addressed above, but as far as I can see not many facts were in fact in contention. Instead, he defends the status quo and current vision of the Federation were I presented a more critical appraisal of past and current times.

Just calling it revisionist history doesn't make it so.

Also, understand that the simple statements in history books hide complex truths.


It is interesting to note that the posts that started this thread have solely been taken to be arguments for Intaki separatism and independence. Perhaps this is the legacy of an ideology connected to my name. Yet, quite clearly my conclusions in the text also considered an other alternative.

I understand the appeal and even longing for the traditional lifestyle. This sentiment exists also among the ethnic Gallente, there are various associations dedicated to preservation of the history and the interest in these matters frequently finds an expression in various anachronistic events.

Intaki have a very unique and interesting culture and its continuation and maintenance are worthy goals which I can fully support.

However, I am not convinced that the proponents of secession talk for all the people of Intaki origin. Let us look at a short list of CEO's of a few Federal corporations:

Federal Administration: Agenbaert Goisin
Federation Customs: Blayme Eyghotelle
University of Caille: Carbircelle Habiniestan
Scope: Herirlier Allerchel
Bank of Luminaire: Larcacraine Palere
Material Acquisition: Ontre Ildrie
Egonics: Penille Ampaert
Federal Marines: General Barset Fait
Crux Special Tasks Group: Jani Pier Theisant

I could also add the current head of the Senate, Aulmont Meis, and the former president Souro Foiritan to this list. All these extremely talented Intakis have risen to important positions of leadership in a scale which is difficult to fathom. These Intaki are key actors in the Union, they are the face and backbone of the Federation.

It seems to me that any divergent roads there might be, lie primarily within the Intaki community itself.

There wasn't much to rebut. You claimed Mordu's Legion is doing a bad job and asserted that the Federation isn't the belligerent party in the current war.

One might ask what the Federation seeks to accomplish by continuing its belligerence against the Caldari State. A nominal two party framework has established what may be an answer to the Caldari Prime Question that is fair and equitable to both Federation and State -- which was always the core reason for the 108 invasion.

Are you crazy ? The central government is already weak enough to allow most low security worlds to be pillaged and burned by that proxy war. And they have to deal with that alone, and do not even have the right to vote any longer since the Federation has become the embodiment of double standards (core world against rim worlds).

A decentralization would only mean less national cohesion, a giant mess, without speaking about what I would call a liberal orgy where every federal state can do as they please, thus increasing in-between federal worlds tension, feuds, and resentment. Core worlds would be even more indifferent to the situation in the border zones and everyone would soon be left to their very own.

The Federal Constitution is the very last thing everyone would call biased. It already lets too much leverage to every member state, does not recognize ethnicity in its own terms but federal identity, and as shown in recent cases again with the Midular assassination and that Brutor self defense, ruled out objectively and with admirable rationality, true to its own beliefs. Where is the bias ? The only bias comes from core world senators that form a majority and started to slowly choke rim worlds by removing them the right to vote and the right to be defended by sacrifying them to the CEWPA.

I loathe your ivory tower mentality, general. When I think you once swore an oath to protect all the Federation, no matter the state, no matter the world and the ethnicity, and now that I read of this... It is no wonder that you resigned from the military. What a waste.

People should remember senator Celes Aguard, that I fully support.

The answer I arrive at is the defense of State citizens and territory against the depredations of the Roden Administration and men such as Mentas Blaque who would seek to prolong the war through continued military belligerence since the current state of CEWPA limited conflict serves both their economic and political interests.

I don't reckon we need to wonder much about that while Roden is in charge. Him and the rest of his mates are going to be raking in ISK as long as they can drag it out.

I don't suppose it occurred to anyone, but the fact that the Fed Navy and now Mordus are both doing much the same job in security despite the heavy..wossit? (disparity!) in all their resources just might have something to do with the orders and brief they get from the Assembly?

If Intaki is a low security backwater, its because the Assembly want it to be a low security backwater.