These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at

Warfare & Tactics

  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12

Welcome to PvP, V2 (an intro to pvp mechanics)

Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-11-01 13:40:37 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I'm guessing you're disagreeing with me because you still do like 5 dps at 2x falloff and you're being pedantic.

I'm not disagreeing with you and yes, I'm being pedantic.
Mobadder Thworst
#22 - 2013-11-02 00:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
If you want to learn actual damage mechanics for turrets, this site breaks it down well:

The verbage explanes exactly how it works. There is a graph there that shows actual "chance to hit" curve as it relates to distance. There is no real need to argue over this.

Here is a simplified explanation of it the actual turret damage process as I understand it:

When you fire, a random number selector picks a number between 0 and 1 which indicates the quality of the shot. Higher numbers indicate better quality shots (which create higher damage). You cannot control what number is picked.

The "chance to hit "equation creates a number between 0 and 1 which indicates how difficult the shot was to make. Bigger numbers mean easier shots to hit.

Here is the equation for "chance to hit":
ChanceToHit = 0.5 ^ ((((Transversal speed/(Range to target * Turret Tracking))*(Turret Signature Resolution / Target Signature Radius))^2) + ((max(0, Range To Target - Turret Optimal Range))/Turret Falloff)^2)

If the randomly selected number is less than the "chance to hit" number, you hit your target. NOTE: THIS MEANS THAT AS YOUR CHANCE TO HIT DECREASES, SO DOES THE MAXIMUM HIT QUALITY. This mean that DPS falls off more sharply than the chance to hit curve... which runs out to ABOUT OPTIMAL + 2x Optimal (meaning your DPS falls faster).

(If the "chance to hit" equation yields a .8, then there is an 80% chance that a random number between 0 and 1 will be less than the "chance to hit" number). That means I have an 80% chance of hitting... but it also means that any shots of .8 quality or better won't hit... and those are the highest damage shots.

So, having said all that, I don't teach that because it's complicated. It's hard to keep it all straight.

I break the factors of "chance to hit" into 3 pieces. I teach them as linear components because that makes them simple. If you're reading this, you already know the model I proposed above.

I reduce the range factor to "optimal + 1.5x falloff" to compensate for the decreasing maximum damage probability you get as you approach "optimal + 2x falloff".

This linear model seems to fit the first half of the "damage probability curve"(notice, I'm not talking about the "chance to hit curve") better than the model with 2x falloff.

If you want proof, modify the chance to hit curve with a median damage probability modifier and plot it.

In reality, you do about 40% dps(by probability) at "optimal + falloff". You do 3% damage at "optimal + 2x falloff".

If you use the linear approximation "Optimal + 2x falloff", you would think you do 50% DPS at "optimal + falloff", overestimating yourself by 10%.

If you use the "optimal + 1.5x falloff", you would think you do 33% DPS at "optimal+ falloff, conservatively estimating your DPS by 7% and MORE CLOSELY FITTING THE FIRST HALF OF THE DPS PROBABILITY CURVE.

Yes internet troubleshooters, you are correct, nothing I said in the gun damage section is actually true. However, I noted that in the first sentence in that section.

I still think my model is better for teaching... and it will lead you to make the same right decisions as a good understanding of the actual equations and probabilities.

Give me a +1 if you find this useful.
Falak Atarid
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-11-02 09:18:04 UTC
thank you Sir, for your detailed explanation.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2013-11-02 11:29:42 UTC
Just say optimal = full damage
Optimal fallof = half
Optimal double falloff = none

Math wise its not perfectly accurate but in practice it is. So a player doesn't benefit at all from knowing the rest other than knowing stuff being cool.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Previous page12