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So yeah sentrys OP much?

First post First post
Author
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-11-02 01:51:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Mara Rinn wrote:
Icer Xx wrote:
Full crit build Isthars to stronk.


There's a bit of a difference between "too strong" and "incredibly broken". Looks like Makalu needs to stay out of sentry Ishtars for while to avoid CCP discovering his secret sauce.

CCP seems to suggest the contrary:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
I will however be watching them very carefully so if you disagree please take advantage of the power of these ships as much as you can and enjoy the benefits while demonstrating to us why we should change it.

Also:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I completely agree that these kinds of changes are very disruptive to existing tactics, but disruptive changes provide content and allow the best minds to rise to the top. Disruptive changes are intrinsically valuable.

Nobody is gonna ban you guys for overusing this if it's too powerful, so go forth and theorycraft and prove your assertions in the wild.



(Yes the quotes refer to a different issue. But this is not Fozzie asking people to abuse things on Sisi, he is actually suggesting doing this on the real server as a valid method of providing balance feedback.)
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-11-02 04:55:32 UTC
Why is this thread so full of people who can't read?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#23 - 2013-11-02 06:12:28 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Why is this thread so full of people who can't read?


Because its in GD.

Can I have someoenes stuff?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#24 - 2013-11-02 06:59:47 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Why is this thread so full of people who can't read?


Please explain for the less literate of us how 5 Sentry drones do 121 K raw alpha, let alone modified alpha.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2013-11-02 07:02:03 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
(Yes the quotes refer to a different issue. But this is not Fozzie asking people to abuse things on Sisi, he is actually suggesting doing this on the real server as a valid method of providing balance feedback.)

…but then, this is not a matter of balancing feedback, but of a pretty immense bug that apparently ignores the damage formula and inflates the outgoing damage by a factor of ×300.

Note that those logs show a normal hit (“hit”) doing 130k damage and a high-quality hit (“smashes”) doing 121k. Neither of them are wrecking shots and the higher-quality hit does less damage than the normal hit. The damages are insane and the qualities do not match the damage scale. So this is something going severely awry with the to-hit calculations.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#26 - 2013-11-02 07:10:39 UTC
More drone assist fleets please

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#27 - 2013-11-02 08:16:25 UTC
Would be sad if it turns out that the game hard-codes wrecking shots to do a fixed percentage of the target's hit points. Suddenly rate of fire will become more important against capitals and super capitals: who cares about DPS when you have the chance per shot of doing 5% EHP in damage? :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#28 - 2013-11-02 08:16:52 UTC
Why not, drone assist fleets usually use a lot of sentry drones, what better way to make use of this high-damage sentry drone damage feature than a doctrine that uses lots of sentry drone damage

idgi

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2013-11-02 08:19:20 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Why not, drone assist fleets usually use a lot of sentry drones, what better way to make use of this high-damage sentry drone damage feature than a doctrine that uses lots of sentry drone damage

idgi

You have to figure out what causes it first, and when you do, it'll be patched away… Blink
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#30 - 2013-11-02 08:36:27 UTC
Quick question, were there any heavy or other drones from the offending party out?
Dusty Daisy
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-11-02 08:44:51 UTC
Might not be related but i just had one of my sentry drones hit for 2 damage on a structure i was trying to destroy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-11-02 08:55:04 UTC
Dusty Daisy wrote:
Might not be related but i just had one of my sentry drones hit for 2 damage on a structure i was trying to destroy.

That sounds wrong too, but in the exact opposite direction. The lowest possible damage multiplier you're supposed to be able to have is ×0.5. Unless your sentries do somewhere around 10 HP base damage and/or the structure had some pretty insane resists (they never do), such a low damage shouldn't be possible either.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-11-02 09:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Evangelina Nolen wrote:
Quick question, were there any heavy or other drones from the offending party out?



Heavy drones are pretty useless for an ishtar based kiting sentry drone fleet. While I'm not a member of PL, I'd also imagine they don't do mixing flights of drones when there is no reason to.



So without being 100% certain as there were many drones, wrecks, ships, and lags on the Sun, but reasonably sure all the same, no, I do not believe there were heavy drones being deployed by the ishtar fleet.



EDITING IN:



Tippia wrote:
Dusty Daisy wrote:
Might not be related but i just had one of my sentry drones hit for 2 damage on a structure i was trying to destroy.

That sounds wrong too, but in the exact opposite direction. The lowest possible damage multiplier you're supposed to be able to have is ×0.5. Unless your sentries do somewhere around 10 HP base damage and/or the structure had some pretty insane resists (they never do), such a low damage shouldn't be possible either.




Also would depend on the fall off/Optimal yeah? If they were at edge of range, they could very well have done tiny amounts of DPS just because of Fall off.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Dusty Daisy
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-11-02 09:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dusty Daisy
it might have been 20, no idea if that means it is normal though as they usually hit for a few hundred and over 1k wrecking shots so it stood out.

it was in optimal range.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2013-11-02 09:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kenrailae wrote:
Also would depend on the fall off/Optimal yeah? If they were at edge of range, they could very well have done tiny amounts of DPS just because of Fall off.

No. Falloff and tracking only ever affects your chance to hit. The actual damage done depends on your hit quality, which, while related is something completely different.

Your hit quality is essentially the roll of your to-hit die + 0.5. If you have a chance to hit of, say, 0.4 because of falloff or tracking, die rolls of 0.01–0.40 will result in hit qualities (i.e. damage multipliers) of ×0.51–0.9, and die rolls higher than that will result in complete misses. Being far into falloff means you deal less damage statistically, but that's because you hit so rarely and because those rare hits get their damage halved — not because the damage for each shot is minute.

For a sentry drone with a base damage of, say, 160 after resists (i.e. 640 base vs 80% resists) to only do 2 HP damage, the final hit quality would have to be 0.0125, which means the die roll would have had to be -0.4875 on a scale from 0 to 1.
Lupo diCotze
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-11-02 09:31:00 UTC
Evangelina Nolen wrote:
Quick question, were there any heavy or other drones from the offending party out?


A few hobs & warriors on the killmail
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#37 - 2013-11-02 10:29:46 UTC
As someone else already said; this looks to be another bug with Hull hits, although I think it's an even more severe effect than those I've been aware of previously. (Farjung's Freighter kill (which is probably the best known incident if only because it was captured on video) ramped his blasters up to 10k or so per shot IIRC an order of magnitude lesser effect than this one).

The loss is petitionable and I would expect the ship to be reimbursed based on the data the OP has provided.

P.S. Hair-trigger posters... LOL.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-11-02 10:30:29 UTC
I too want a sentry that does Titan sized damage Roll
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Poultergoose4
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-11-02 10:31:37 UTC
To the obviously illiterate people in here who cannot read the OP's first post. This has nothing to do with Drone assisting in any shape or form.
It is a case of 1 sentry doing ~121,000 damage while another sentry did ~129,000 damage, this is not over a period of time as many of you seem to be under the impression. This was just 1 shot from each. But if you think there is honestly nothing wrong with 'A' (not a group of assigned) sentry drone somehow managing to do more dps than a sieged moros gun, you're wrong.
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#40 - 2013-11-02 12:17:30 UTC
WTB a pod which needs 2 hits like that to kill.