These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

SOV tearing down the old.

First post
Author
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2013-11-01 20:28:13 UTC
Kyle Sev wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Destructable stations are still a bad idea.


I'd be ok with destructible stations if all your assets appeared in the closest NPC station after a delay of say a week. You could even have NPC haulers people could attack to slow the moving process down.



Except no one would ever run out of anything but NPC space. There wouldn't be a reason, anyone with a super fleet could restage your **** for you.

maybe make it so they only take 1 hauler worth of stuff. So at random you keep some stuff and lose all the other stuff.



One hauler? WTF are you flying?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2013-11-01 20:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Quote:

I know for a fact that CFC's possession of Period Basis and every conquerable station in those two regions were not the result of kicking someone out. You bought them with isk.


Quote:

Buying land... now that has no historical precedent of any kind whatsoever. What scoundrels.

I didn't comment as to whether it was good or bad. I'm merely correcting his error on fighting for every system they hold.[/quote]

You do realize he means Fatal Ascension, right? He said "fifty some-odd systems". Pretty sure the CFC as a whole holds far more.

L2Read.[/quote]


CFC as a whole only form up when the horn of Goondor is blown, the rest of the time we operate individually, I play with LI3 and occasionally EXE out of proximity, but every action is NOT a coalition thing.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#303 - 2013-11-01 20:36:36 UTC
Horn of Goondor, lol. Next it'll be a white tree, right?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#304 - 2013-11-01 20:41:39 UTC
Sov and the issues related to its current state are the primary reason I have absolutely no interest in Null.

If we're talking about rebuilding the system completely (which CCP probably gets quite a giggle fit out of, since all the money is going to projects outside our New Eden), I'd propose that space itself should be a limiting factor in how much Sov. a group can hold.

By expanding New Eden a large amount, the idea is to make space so large that the fabled "blue donut" simply cannot happen, purely because no single group could work with the game mechanics to hold sovereignty over all of it.

This would open up the game for small alliances, some who merely want to cause trouble, to attack outlying systems that belong to the giant alliances. Indeed, if several small alliances piled on to pick on PL or someone, it could happen, resulting in the larger alliance losing space, and potentially being wiped out completely.

This conflict is pointless though without something to drive it. Coupled with the "too much space" idea, New Eden needs resources scattered about. Yes, valuable resources. Sort of reverting the whole moon-goo thing. Again, the idea being that space is large enough that even groups like CFC can't monopolize all the high-value systems without a small alliance being able to sneak in overnight and wipe one out.
It's a given that anything is possible with enough people, and if CFC or some other group manages to bring in so many new pilots into the game that they can monopolize the resources, then it is even better for all of us, and CCP can look at expanding space even more.

The conflict should be driven by resources, not structures. We could have a million systems in New Eden, but the ones with the resources would be the most hotly contested areas of space.

And for all that is holy in the eyes of Amarr LET THERE BE EMPTY SPACE. Since my earliest days I have seen people complaining about "empty" systems. You'd think Eve was completely dead for the way they talk. Yet on the null-sec roams I've done with a few groups here and there, I've rarely gone more than two systems before we saw other people in local. If null is so empty, people should fit a shiny ship and leave it uncloaked for a day cycle right at the sun. We'll see just how "empty" and "dead" null-sec is.
I digress, this is about Sov.

Just as small groups of players in high-sec can wardec another corp, small alliances should be able to harass bigger alliances in null-sec with a potential for taking territory for their own. Perhaps the resources in one system are good enough for the small alliance, but the big alliance they are taking it from counts it as expendable because they don't use it.

Allow the small alliances to venture out and explore empty nullsec to find systems that suit their needs and set up their own "island", where they own a couple key systems in deep space with no neighbors for a dozen jumps. The downside to this is that anyone can come across it and decide to jump in capitals and simply wipe them out, then take all the resources out via JF (you have to store all that stuff somewhere, make it drop loot when exploded).

TL;DR: I'm sure there are plenty of issues that the "big space" mechanic might cause, but I think they can be worked around. Overall my main concept is allowing space to be vast enough that even the largest coalitions cannot front the manpower to control all of it.

Profit favors the prepared

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2013-11-01 20:43:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Horn of Goondor, lol. Next it'll be a white tree, right?



heh I'm not the first to make that reference, the first time I was on the receiving end.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#306 - 2013-11-01 20:56:25 UTC
Horn of Goondor is an oldass reference.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#307 - 2013-11-01 21:13:21 UTC
The inherent problem we have here is that sov is a complicated beast, and implementing a proper fix requires a number of new features and modifications to old features to be designed and delivered pretty much simultaneously.

CCP has demonstrated over and over again in the last couple of years that they're either unwilling or incapable of delivering any such 'joined up' expansion, and are only able to give us a disparate selection of tweaks and modest features in each 6-month cycle of development.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#308 - 2013-11-01 21:23:04 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
The inherent problem we have here is that sov is a complicated beast, and implementing a proper fix requires a number of new features and modifications to old features to be designed and delivered pretty much simultaneously.

CCP has demonstrated over and over again in the last couple of years that they're either unwilling or incapable of delivering any such 'joined up' expansion, and are only able to give us a disparate selection of tweaks and modest features in each 6-month cycle of development.


That about sums up what I said a few pages ago.

Sov is a complicated issue, damned if they do, damned if they don't. And right now, it's too hard of an issue to justify putting that much effort into it, when it's rather likely they'll be damned anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#309 - 2013-11-01 22:07:46 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
The inherent problem we have here is that sov is a complicated beast, and implementing a proper fix requires a number of new features and modifications to old features to be designed and delivered pretty much simultaneously.

CCP has demonstrated over and over again in the last couple of years that they're either unwilling or incapable of delivering any such 'joined up' expansion, and are only able to give us a disparate selection of tweaks and modest features in each 6-month cycle of development.


Yup, no simple fix; any change needs to be comprehensive.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#310 - 2013-11-01 22:32:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
The inherent problem we have here is that sov is a complicated beast, and implementing a proper fix requires a number of new features and modifications to old features to be designed and delivered pretty much simultaneously.

CCP has demonstrated over and over again in the last couple of years that they're either unwilling or incapable of delivering any such 'joined up' expansion, and are only able to give us a disparate selection of tweaks and modest features in each 6-month cycle of development.


That about sums up what I said a few pages ago.

Sov is a complicated issue, damned if they do, damned if they don't. And right now, it's too hard of an issue to justify putting that much effort into it, when it's rather likely they'll be damned anyway.

Yep.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#311 - 2013-11-01 22:35:59 UTC
Damned if I know a fix.

It all boils down to quantity has its own quality.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#312 - 2013-11-01 22:41:18 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Damned if I know a fix.

It all boils down to quantity has its own quality.

quantity of timers

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?