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Preparing for a BS in the future?
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Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#1 - 2013-11-01 13:42:23 UTC
I have about 3.5M SP and running a minmatar BC, but I'm looking ahead to what BS I want to use when I get to lvl 4 missions. I'm more focused on safety than speed, and AFK ability is important as I sometime get interruptions for work or family. I salvage my wrecks and I think I'll be running in Amarr space.

Does a Rattlesnake make sense? I have T2 drone capability already but no missile skills. I have decent fitting and defensive skills. I haven't pushed my projectile skills too far because I'm afraid I will have wasted time with the changes coming later this month.

Since a Rattlesnake uses Caldari & Gallente base is this too much of a stretch? Would it make more sense to get into one of their BS's first as a bridge to the RS?

Evemon doesn't list any recommended certificates for the Pirate Faction BS's so it's hard to judge the training time to run the RS effectively.
Keno Skir
#2 - 2013-11-01 14:18:30 UTC
Buy a normal t1 bs and practice in that. You WILL lose it several times regardless how much it cost. Pirate bs are for those with plenty of experience fitting large ships and support skills to match. In the least l33t sounding way possible, 3.5 million SP doesn't support using a billion isk pirate battleship. Also leaving one afk in a lvl4 with low SP is asking for trouble (loudly, while waving a sign asking for even more trouble).

Sorry to be blunt, not trying to make you feel small. I'm genuinely trying to save you from this mistake.

Fly safe (ish)

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-11-01 14:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Keno Skir wrote:
Also leaving one afk in a lvl4 with low SP is asking for trouble


When did he say that?----------- NVM. read his post. He DID say that.

In any case, I agree. You want to have excellent weapon/fitting/support skills before you buy a pirate BS. If you are interested in the Rattlesnake, try out the Raven first. It will take decent missile skills, so practice in a Drake with level 3s until you are comfortable and have the skillpoints to mount a tech 2 tank and tech 2 launchers. Both ships are rather forgiving since you can mount a decent tank on them.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-11-01 18:29:38 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
AFK ability is important as I sometime get interruptions for work or family.
If you don't have the 30 seconds to collect your drones and warp out, you shouldn't be running missions.

With low skill points you may only have a 300-500 HP/s tank, which is not enough to resist a full room. (Most rooms do about 1k dps, bonus rooms can do 2k dps.) But even if you pimp a Rattlesnake to a 3k HP/s tank, you can still lose it.
Your drones might accidentally kill trigger ships, leading to a huge escalation.
There might be some timed spawn that will kill you. (e.g. Portal to War Part 2)
Or a player might notice that you are AFK and decides to gank you. (This can even be done solo, by intentionally killing trigger ships and letting the NPCs do the work.)

Just fit a MJD so that you can warp off even when you are warp disrupted. (When you jump 100km away, they lose their tackle and you can warp off - and NPCs don't use scramblers, so you can always use your MJD.)

If you like drones, the Rattlesnake is a nice end goal for lvl 4 missions, but as the previous posters have said, you should not start in one.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-11-01 19:43:04 UTC
It is really hard to reply without knowing what skill path you are on. You didn't tell us which Minimtair battle cruiser you are flying now. 3.5 million skill point are not that much, so if you switch paths now it will not be too bad, but the most direct path would be a ship that matches the skills you have already trained.

If you are looking at the Rattlesnake then I suspect you are currently flying a Cyclone. That does work as a skill progression. Both ships use Shields, Missiles and Drones.

The BS being a different faction isn't that big of a deal, it does not take that long to train up to be able to inject that skill.

If you want to stay with Minmatar, then the Typhoon would be the logical choice, but I don't know of many people who mission with it. Plus it is armor tanked, so that means new skills.

Before you go to a Rattlesnake, I suggest trying out the Raven and then maybe the Navy Raven. They are both great mission ships that will favor your skills (assuming I guessed correctly). Moving from a Raven to a Rattlesnake is very easy.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#6 - 2013-11-02 00:08:19 UTC
Having just been part of killing an under skilled Machariel pilot I definitely agree you should not just rush into a pirate BS.

A new recruit or someone looking to leave your corp anyway might decide to cause some chaos on the way out and they will pick a pirate BS in preference to other targets.

Get into a tech 1 BS with a tech 2 tank and a microjumpdrive and pay attention to anything that causes you trouble. With an MJD you are hard for rats to kill, and in a tech 1 BS you won't be an appealing target to high sec pirates.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2013-11-02 07:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Does a Rattlesnake make sense?

This is what I use for level 4 missions, when in the mood to use a Rattlesnake [I also use a Navy Raven, Tengu, and a Legion, as the mood strikes me]. It is massively overtanked. Then ATS is only for increasing targets, and never activated. Replace the energy transfer with a NOS when solo. [Shield rep is at the beginning of a cycle, and faster, but far less energy efficient than armor rep. Some drones shield tank, others armor tank.] I actually own three of these.

I don't recommend this to anyone without maxed skills and deep pockets. [Something to work up to.] Example

Level 4 are also possible using a Dominix or Gila if you like drones.

[Rattlesnake, Level 4 for Dummies]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner

Auto Targeting System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Hammerhead II x10
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Kyzen Hunt
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-11-02 12:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyzen Hunt
Tau CabalanderI wrote:
don't recommend this to anyone without maxed skills and deep pockets. [Something to work up to.] Example
I don't recommend this to anyone clear in mind...I mean it's Level 4...NOS? WTF?

Tau CabalanderI wrote:

Level 4 are also possible using a Dominix or Gila if you like drones.
Oh, really? What about a simple Sniper Dominix? No need for the faction stuff get cheap T2 stuff (although the faction tracking links give you some advantage, you will most likely never feel the difference) put a Civilian Blaster on instead of the Remoter repper to get aggro, costs less than 200m and is lightyears ahead from your failfit. Only thing to consider might be faction sentries when heavy afking and/or aggroing with them.

Tau CabalanderI wrote:

[Rattlesnake, Level 4 for Dummies]
For dummies...yes.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-11-02 13:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
here, have a non blingy fit

[Dominix, Dominix MJD Sentries]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Civilian Light Electron Blaster, Civilian Blaster Charge

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

works pretty well. just be wary of the cooldown on the MJD and you should be fine. only use the hobs to kill frigates you failed to snipe as they die remarkably quickly.

you may or may not want curators for EM damage, never used them myself.

forums.  serious business.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-11-02 15:09:45 UTC
Kyzen Hunt wrote:
Tau CabalanderI wrote:
don't recommend this to anyone without maxed skills and deep pockets. [Something to work up to.] Example
I don't recommend this to anyone clear in mind...I mean it's Level 4...NOS? WTF?


If you don't even know why the NOS on a PvE ship, you should learn the game more.

If you did some research you would have found that:

1.) Rats have an infinite cap of 1.
2.) If you drain that 1 cap they have right before their tank modules runs, it is out of cap (thanks to the server cycle of 1 second).
3.) This means by running that NOS / Neut, you can break the rat's tank.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Kyzen Hunt
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-11-02 17:36:53 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
If you don't even know why the NOS on a PvE ship, you should learn the game more.


Maybe you're right with this. Can you help me and name 1 Level 4 Mission where this is necessary? At least with the ability to choose the damage type (which you can with sentries) this will never ever happen, even with low SP.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-11-02 18:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Kyzen Hunt wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you don't even know why the NOS on a PvE ship, you should learn the game more.


Maybe you're right with this. Can you help me and name 1 Level 4 Mission where this is necessary? At least with the ability to choose the damage type (which you can with sentries) this will never ever happen, even with low SP.


It helps LOW SP players (you do know you are posting in NEW CITIZEN Q&A) with breaking tanks.

And I don't know any level 4 mission, cause I don't mission at all, I gave up the boring missions a long long time ago.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Keno Skir
#13 - 2013-11-02 18:20:04 UTC
Kyzen Hunt wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you don't even know why the NOS on a PvE ship, you should learn the game more.


Maybe you're right with this. Can you help me and name 1 Level 4 Mission where this is necessary? At least with the ability to choose the damage type (which you can with sentries) this will never ever happen, even with low SP.


This is useful, you're trying to sound clever and coming off not quite so :)

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Kyzen Hunt
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-11-02 19:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyzen Hunt
When that's such a great idea, post this crap on battleclinic and I bet you will wake up with a multi billion bounty on your head.

Anyway Keno, name a damn mission where you need it. Only possiblity I see here is the named rat in Vengeance but with the proper dmg type this shouldn't be a problem even with Low SP.

Skelns Dominx posted above will do everything far better, in each and every single L4 mission currently available but costs half a billion less. I don't really like that it's overtanked for a sniper since it costs locking range^and the T1 Drone Links but that's what I call a solid droneboat.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-11-02 20:45:45 UTC
Kyzen Hunt wrote:
When that's such a great idea, post this crap on battleclinic and I bet you will wake up with a multi billion bounty on your head.

Anyway Keno, name a damn mission where you need it. Only possiblity I see here is the named rat in Vengeance but with the proper dmg type this shouldn't be a problem even with Low SP.

Skelns Dominx posted above will do everything far better, in each and every single L4 mission currently available but costs half a billion less. I don't really like that it's overtanked for a sniper since it costs locking range^and the T1 Drone Links but that's what I call a solid droneboat.


A. Post with your main if you have the balls. Posting with your alt just shows us how crap you are.

B. Give is a proper fit then.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2013-11-02 21:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Kyzen Hunt wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you don't even know why the NOS on a PvE ship, you should learn the game more.


Maybe you're right with this. Can you help me and name 1 Level 4 Mission where this is necessary? At least with the ability to choose the damage type (which you can with sentries) this will never ever happen, even with low SP.

The NOS is so you can run the reppers longer on your drones (same for energy transfer when using more than one ship).

A faction NOS is used for increased range, as most things worth NOS-ing stay at range, Angels excepted.

I won EVE long ago by having fun. I always get a chuckle when people attack my posts, so thanks for that Big smile
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-11-02 23:58:56 UTC
Kyzen Hunt wrote:
Skelns Dominx posted above will do everything far better, in each and every single L4 mission currently available but costs half a billion less. I don't really like that it's overtanked for a sniper since it costs locking range^and the T1 Drone Links but that's what I call a solid droneboat.


yeah i'm probably going to drop a trimark for an ionic field projector. having lock range lower than my sentries optimal is a bit lol. rarely do i find stuff out of range with the sebo and range script though.

without rat specific armor hardeners you will get spanked however. i tried doing the guristas route of world's collide (after finsihing the serpentis route) without the second kinetic hardener and wow... had to leave. and that was at 80km.

no fears with the MJD though, rats can't tackle you.

forums.  serious business.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#18 - 2013-11-03 00:38:42 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Does a Rattlesnake make sense?

This is what I use for level 4 missions, when in the mood to use a Rattlesnake [I also use a Navy Raven, Tengu, and a Legion, as the mood strikes me]. It is massively overtanked. Then ATS is only for increasing targets, and never activated. Replace the energy transfer with a NOS when solo. [Shield rep is at the beginning of a cycle, and faster, but far less energy efficient than armor rep. Some drones shield tank, others armor tank.] I actually own three of these.

I don't recommend this to anyone without maxed skills and deep pockets. [Something to work up to.] Example

Level 4 are also possible using a Dominix or Gila if you like drones.

[Rattlesnake, Level 4 for Dummies]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner

Auto Targeting System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Hammerhead II x10
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5



of course, T2 SPRs are no better than Meta 4 SPRs. Worse on fitting, no better on effects Blink

needs a rebalance, really.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-11-03 08:26:49 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
If you did some research you would have found that:

1.) Rats have an infinite cap of 1.


CCP Rise confirmed a while back that they don't have a cap of 1. Rats have normal cap for their ship size (was in the F&I thread on changes to the NOS mechanics)

A NOS on a mission ship used to be for extra cap. Let a non-scramming frigate or cruiser get into orbit and stick the NOS on it, or on whatever other ship gets into range. More cap for you. Don't think it'll work as well after the change to NOS mechanics, unless you use a ship of the same size
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#20 - 2013-11-03 12:38:28 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
. Also leaving one afk in a lvl4 with low SP is asking for trouble (loudly, while waving a sign asking for even more trouble).



Leaving one afk anywhere in Eve is asking for trouble. Faction battleship sitting AFK is an invitation for suicide gankers to kill you.
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