Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hello,

I have recently returned to EVE and i noticed that there is a lot of suicide ganking, with corps dedicated to it. While i agree they should be allowed to do it, i think they should risk a lot more than they currently do.(the average Suicide Gankers risks 10-15mil per person(and stands to gain from 50 mil up to even 1 bilion) while the average victim loses 1bil+ and stands to gain nothing - at best it can hope to keep what it already had.

Example time:

Post #404 has killboard links for a Rattlesnake that is taken out at a clear loss for the Suicide Gankers. Looking at the people who killed the Rattlesnake in a 0.6 system we notice that they did that to other ships, including marauders, when it was clear they would gain no profit.

The above show that in some cases Suicide Ganking is done with the single purpose of harassing other players, causing them grief.

This can be done now because it has never been cheaper to cause this much grief to your fellow players.

Adding the link here in case post #404 gets edited:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2feve.battleclinic.com%2fkillboard%2fkillmail.php%3fid%3d21015260&domain=battleclinic.com

Later EDIT: The persons doing this said they actually made some profit, i am not sure they did as the dropped modules were worth 95mil. And they lost 11 destroyers. But if 95 milions + the salvage is enough to replace 11 ships it clearly shows nobody is safe as a freighter can be ganked for profit while carrying as low as 400mil in his cargo.


The problem:

Every time a Freighter/Marauder/Pirate ship undocks they risk billions. Their recovery time is huge. If they survive from the gank(most don`t) they don`t gain anything, they only get to keep what they previously earned.

Every time a Suicide Ganker undocks, he risks 10-15mil. His recovery time is very short. If he is successful he gains a lot more than he risks.

Any idea that can add some monetary risk for the Suicide Gankers is welcomed.

The idea must:

1. Allow Suicide Ganking to continue to be profitable if a High Value Target is Suicide Ganked.(the actual value of a "High Value Target" needs to be determined)
2. Deter the Suicide Gankers from targeting low value targets "for the lulz". Example: killing a ship only to cause "tears" and harm their fellow player(essentially griefing)
3. Force Suicide Gankers to risk more than their current risk of 10-15mil per person while every freighter/pirate ship/marauder pilot risks 1bil+. This should not mean that for EVERY suicide gank the Suicide Gankers lose 1 bil. The loss should only happen sometimes(how often should be determined by their skill/coordination and by the skill of their victim)
4. The mechanic introduced should be as less intrusive as possible for anyone else but the Suicide Gankers.(it should take into account that players can target and shoot other players by mistake/missclicks in High Sec, the mechanic should not punish this as this is a mistake not a premeditated Suicide Gank)

I am sure together we can find something that works.

I will lost all the idea presented in the thread in no particular order:(even the ones not respecting the above rules as maybe parts of them can be used):

1. It introduces a new profession and lets players punish the Suicide Gankers in way friendly with EVE lore. It also makes being in the same Corporation important for the Suicide Gankers if they want to be able to defend themselves properly - and if they are in the same corporation people can declare war if they feel like it.
2. Removing KM`s for ganks.
3. Have CONCORD respond faster if the Victim has a high Security Status.
4. -5 Sec Status gets you banned from 0.5+ systems
5. Suicide Ganking should also cause a faction loss


If i missed anything or there are typos let me know. I will keep adding new idea as they are presented.

they took away insurance for ganking, probably about the only thing you are getting money wise.


Your gankers are now more effective courtesy of crime watch as well. They don't mess around with this like they used to. This would also be why miner bumping is on the rise. I said way in the past this might happen. Make it so they need and not just want the gank more some will get much better at it. Saw this in times in low sec and 0.0. I have died more in low sec camps tbh. They wanted my kills more since its how they get paid. 0.0 can be lazy or sloppy if you get lucky. If a ship gets away, oh well, they will get their 40 mil per tick later in a CA somewhere.

And people have ganked in empire for lola for a while now. This is not new.

you don't see how ganking works....

by the time ship is scanned it could be gone. Some gankers roll the dice the cargo is worth the concording.

This is how transport ganking usually goes for example. back before they were unscannable if you gave me a few seconds while you scanned and thought about gank or no gank, I was gone baby gone. I fit my ninjya haulers for agility just in the off chance there is an empire crew who cares enough to go "instalock" setup. Well that and I am lazy...didn't want to swap out the out of empire fit.


CCP has also established this is a viable profession. TO be fair and keep the profession viable ccp would have to go give them something. Off the op of my head it be virtually instant scanning. You don't want this. Not in a ninjya hauler you want those precious seconds to try for the escape from crews that do base their hits on value of target.


Just fly smarter. I make no claims of being perfect. I will man up and say I have been stone cold ganked in empire on my hauler char. I will also man up and say those couple of time I was flying like an idiot and some eve players taught me a lesson as to what happens in eve when you do that.

This is not about me - i don`t own a freighter and when i have something big to move i just contract it.

This is also not just about haulers, this is about the lone miner that keeps getting ganked out of hate - his playstyle should be preserved too right?

This is also about the player doing missions and getting ganked by 10-15 destroyers because they want to loot that 200mil module he has on him. For 200 mil the destroyers even make a profit and have "fun" but nobody cares that the marauder hull he lost is 1bil+, not to mention the modules. He loses 1.3 bil, one player, not even fitting anything more expensive than his hull worth, while the TEN+ players make a profit with just a 200 mil module.

This is not balanced in any way.... but it could be.

EVE Online wants to be as close to reality as it can, and while we can`t place people in "jail" in a video game, we can at least try and give a more realistic punishment.

and the gankers already get their hits from ccp for this.

In the case of the mission runner you are missing a key fact, RNG decides whats drops. I have had the displeasure of losing nice fit ships in pve. You run about around a 50% ish chance of gear recovery. And RNG can be cruel....you may not recover the gear you really want. Some of my cheaper fittings dropped and I was -1 nice shiny shield booster. When you hit mission runners, you hope RNG makes it worth it.


Mining is about timing and location. I sadly until realized it sucked mined for about 1.5 years on an alt. Never had any problem beyond 1 or 2 can flippers. 1 turned into a nice convo because I just had to ask does being 3 year player in pos frigate work at baiting miners. He went oh yeah.....Then I asked what would be some of the ships he'd come back in if I was dumb enough to use my kill rights. Had some nice fits so we talked about them for a bit,

50% is 50%. If he has 400mil worth of modules on a 1bil ship it means 200 mil worth of loot will drop. And the 200 mil that drop will make the 10 people ganking that ship turn up a profit.

I say that is unfair and it should be changed so that 1 bil hulls are no longer destroyed for less that 1-2bil in fittings. One invulnerability field is 1.5 bil so it is not that uncommon to see ships fitting it.

I consider that fair considering there is nothing players can do to prevent High Sec ganking if the gankers are determined.

High Sec should not be Low Sec with a revenge mechanic, it should actually deter people from ganking everything in sight.

As you can see above, people don`t even scan the ships, they just pop everything because it is now so profitable to just kill and see if anything drops why bother actually checking to see if the ship you kill has any loot?

This should not be the case in High Sec. People should be forced to actually check if the target is worth it not just be allowed to gank ship after ship showing they do not care about any consequence as they are too small.

Redo the math please. With your suggestion the loot drop on average is 200 million. But a 1 billion isk hull was lost. Gain is now:

200 - 1,000 = -800.

With 10 guys that is a 80 million loss on top of their ship losses as well.

That guy is not perfectly safe ratting except for people who want to gank just for luls.

Under the current system they'd make 20 million each, then you'd subtract off ship losses. If they are using destroyers with t2 guns and damage modules that will likely mean a 13-15 million loss each, so a gain of 7-5 million.

And chances are the fitting that expensive module did so because he lacks the skills to fly a t2 fit which would likely work pretty much as good--i.e. the target was impatient in terms of wanting to use something he wasn't really ready to use.

Under your scheme the modules would have to be worth 2x the hull value. You just made being impatient a viable option. Why is this a good thing?

Edit: Even I messed up the math, with 400 million in modules, the expected loot drop is only 200 million. Makes this proposed change even worse actually in that it means an 800 million isk loss even with an average drop.

fair and eve don't go together in same sentence. Hell fair and life don't go together either.

Here is the deal down and dirty. Empire ganks are supported by ccp as its the only real isk control that empire has in place. Empire carebears lacking ganks (or making them completely not worth doing) make isk with no overhead. This is bad for the economy.

Low sec and 0.0 (edit: and wh's) have their isk faucets but they carry some overhead. I for example made 1 billion isk in less then 10 minutes when I bagged an officer spawn. 2 weeks later my alliance at the time went on a road trip and in the span of a week in securing our staging system and pushing into hostile space lost half of that in ship losses (lots of meat grinder ops...some lag deaths courtesy of black of screen of death) .

You dedicated empire bears don't have this happen. YOu don't voluntarily fly ships you know at some point will blow up to attempt to balance the isk flow. Enter ganking...if you won't complete the cycle of giving back some of the isk you made by choice, well then the game lets others make that choice for you.

Mission runner hates it that bad do what I do...run a hard to probe tengu. You have to be found to be ganked. max skill virtued pilots are not common in empire.

I have trouble understanding this sentence as there is no insurance payout when suicide ganking.

To the OP: That would make any JF practically ungankable, at a hull cost of 7 Bill or more, it needs to carry 14Bill in value to cover the fine alone. That is absolutely unrealistic. Also, freighter ganking isn't as common as you might think, there are less than 15 freighters exploding in ALL OF EVE on a average day - including deaths to war-decs, in low- and nullsec, in wh-space, death due to suspect flagging etc. It's hardly a common occurence.

While I don't have any particular suggestions one way or the other, I do want to say that it's always struck me as odd that after all the training for a freighter and all the expense of buying one you can't actually carry anything significant in it unless you have a multple scouts, some webbers, 8-10 logi and a little bit of divine intervention.

Freighters being nothing more than 1b-ISK dump trucks seems somehow... wrong. Oh well, that's just EVE I suppose.