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SOV tearing down the old.

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#241 - 2013-11-01 04:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I prefer to think of it as a mechanic created problem...


Yes, and the causation mechanic you refer to is spelled ...

Loyalty Points.

Where I live we spell it differently. I think anyone who's directly benefiting from those problem mechanics would have to be a little biased, that would be you btw.


Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Yes the entire time I'd play after work would be anchoring structures to spam safety hitpoints to last overnight, and any day I didn't get my **** shot down, I'd be doubling up the **** to make it twice as hard for the attackers tomorrow. Be just like "great war" pos spam all over again.

its been done, it sucked.

It won't though? Like structures can be killed pretty damn fast nowadays. Just a few minutes to destroy and ihub / tcu and then sov gets reset.

Gosh I wonder why that's happening... could it be.... caps, jump bridges, trivial force projection...


We grind Delve in two weeks with bombers......you keep crying about force projection, but I only saw a titan twice in that period.

Even without JBs the large coalitions will **** in your wheaties
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#242 - 2013-11-01 04:59:30 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Yes the entire time I'd play after work would be anchoring structures to spam safety hitpoints to last overnight, and any day I didn't get my **** shot down, I'd be doubling up the **** to make it twice as hard for the attackers tomorrow. Be just like "great war" pos spam all over again.

its been done, it sucked.

It won't though? Like structures can be killed pretty damn fast nowadays. Just a few minutes to destroy and ihub / tcu and then sov gets reset.

Gosh I wonder why that's happening... could it be.... caps, jump bridges, trivial force projection...

We grind Delve in two weeks with bombers......you keep crying about force projection, but I only saw a titan twice in that period.

Even without JBs the large coalitions will **** in your wheaties

ncdot trying to kill our titans all the time

grr ncdot

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#243 - 2013-11-01 04:59:54 UTC
you see, we're blobbers who can use torp bombers to great effect

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#244 - 2013-11-01 05:01:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Yes the entire time I'd play after work would be anchoring structures to spam safety hitpoints to last overnight, and any day I didn't get my **** shot down, I'd be doubling up the **** to make it twice as hard for the attackers tomorrow. Be just like "great war" pos spam all over again.

its been done, it sucked.

It won't though? Like structures can be killed pretty damn fast nowadays. Just a few minutes to destroy and ihub / tcu and then sov gets reset.


Aye, but I don't want to have to replace everything every day. right now I have a small pos, it has stront in it, and a gang that is here today waiting to get a tackle off on miners next door, but not here in my TZ, can reinforce it, and then I can fix it. If they want whats in it,(a taranis and some supplies for an ishtar), they'll have to come back for it on the timer.

In an everything blows up right away world, I just can't have a pos, or I have to have a pos for every moon, and then I'm spamming hitpoints in lieu of being logged on.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#245 - 2013-11-01 05:04:00 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Yes the entire time I'd play after work would be anchoring structures to spam safety hitpoints to last overnight, and any day I didn't get my **** shot down, I'd be doubling up the **** to make it twice as hard for the attackers tomorrow. Be just like "great war" pos spam all over again.

its been done, it sucked.

It won't though? Like structures can be killed pretty damn fast nowadays. Just a few minutes to destroy and ihub / tcu and then sov gets reset.


Aye, but I don't want to have to replace everything every day. right now I have a small pos, it has stront in it, and a gang that is here today waiting to get a tackle off on miners next door, but not here in my TZ, can reinforce it, and then I can fix it. If they want whats in it,(a taranis and some supplies for an ishtar), they'll have to come back for it on the timer.

In an everything blows up right away world, I just can't have a pos, or I have to have a pos for every moon, and then I'm spamming hitpoints in lieu of being logged on.

Well how many towers would you be willing to lose over and over

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2013-11-01 05:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Gosh I wonder why that's happening... could it be.... caps, jump bridges, trivial force projection...

So the solution is to make it take 6hrs for a small gang of people to kill that same structure....

You need to think about this for a minute. If you want to help smaller entities, you need to develop a change/mechanic that fcks over large entities without significantly screwing over the little guy. Nerfing jump drives hurts EVERYONE, and it hurts the little guy way more than the big guy.

It doesn't hurt the little guy. The little guy doesn't have caps halfway across the galaxy. The little guys caps are in his POS if he even has caps. Also I'm not talking about jump freighters or other industrial ships, nor am I saying that they shouldn't be able to use jump bridges. I'm talking about supercaps, dreads and carriers.


Onictus wrote:

We grind Delve in two weeks with bombers......you keep crying about force projection, but I only saw a titan twice in that period.

Even without JBs the large coalitions will **** in your wheaties

Wow you took Delve, an empty region after Test ran away, with SB. I'm sure if you had wanted to and were insane you could have done it with ibises in that situation.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#247 - 2013-11-01 05:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
I am curious how some of you would answer this point.

If you take away reinforcement or remove timers or whatever, that will utterly de-incentivize any possibility of there ever being nullsec industry. If the cute little Rebel Alliance wannabes can just come blow up your pos without you being able in any way to do something about it(because you committed the grievous sin of sleeping instead of 24/7 watching your stuff), why would you bother?

Ergo, would this not completely devastate the T2 and T3 manufacturing industries, as well?

In fact, nevermind the industries, most of the "suggestions" would ruin the lives of anyone who lives in a wormhole.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the "solo player experience" and the "little guy" aren't worth that level of fuckery.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#248 - 2013-11-01 05:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I am curious how some of you would answer this point.

If you take away reinforcement or remove timers or whatever, that will utterly de-incentivize any possibility of there ever being nullsec industry. If the cute little Rebel Alliance wannabes can just come blow up your pos without you being able in any way to do something about it(because you committed the grievous sin of sleeping instead of 24/7 watching your stuff), why would you bother?

Ergo, would this not completely devastate the T2 and T3 manufacturing industries, as well?

In fact, nevermind the industries, most of the "suggestions" would ruin the lives of anyone who lives in a wormhole.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the "solo player experience" and the "little guy" aren't worth that level of fuckery.

If you can't defend a POS 24/7 then you shouldn't have one. I don't have a POS because I'm a solo player. That's fine by me I don't want to be in a corporation that has enough members to have round the clock defenses.

You'll all whining and bitching constantly about not being able to make enough money from industry in 0.0. Getting rid of the people hiding behind timers would increase prices and make the market a lot more profitable. What's the problem there?

Stop asking for hand holding ffs, highsec is not far away, go there for that.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#249 - 2013-11-01 05:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I am curious how some of you would answer this point.

If you take away reinforcement or remove timers or whatever, that will utterly de-incentivize any possibility of there ever being nullsec industry. If the cute little Rebel Alliance wannabes can just come blow up your pos without you being able in any way to do something about it(because you committed the grievous sin of sleeping instead of 24/7 watching your stuff), why would you bother?

Ergo, would this not completely devastate the T2 and T3 manufacturing industries, as well?

In fact, nevermind the industries, most of the "suggestions" would ruin the lives of anyone who lives in a wormhole.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the "solo player experience" and the "little guy" aren't worth that level of fuckery.

We'd just burn all the structures and then that would be it, highsec would be the totally the best and that's the end of it

You might see some stuff in wormholes, though the possibly is still there of one day having a highsec entrance that spews people who destroy everything in a couple of hours

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2013-11-01 05:15:20 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I am curious how some of you would answer this point.

If you take away reinforcement or remove timers or whatever, that will utterly de-incentivize any possibility of there ever being nullsec industry. If the cute little Rebel Alliance wannabes can just come blow up your pos without you being able in any way to do something about it(because you committed the grievous sin of sleeping instead of 24/7 watching your stuff), why would you bother?

Ergo, would this not completely devastate the T2 and T3 manufacturing industries, as well?

In fact, nevermind the industries, most of the "suggestions" would ruin the lives of anyone who lives in a wormhole.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the "solo player experience" and the "little guy" aren't worth that level of fuckery.

We'd just burn all the structures and then that would be it, highsec would be the totally the best and that's the end of it

You might see some stuff in wormholes, though the possibly is still there of one day having a highsec entrance that spews people who destroy everything in a couple of hours

If they put cool down timers on caps you'd be losing a lot of caps. Not worth risking caps for some little guys pos. I mean, some PL alt might throw a bait POS down and do a BL on you right.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#251 - 2013-11-01 05:21:16 UTC
probably just the same fleets that get them all bored.

siegefleet down a region again

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#252 - 2013-11-01 05:22:12 UTC
it's like we didn't grind down tons of stuff with things like bombers because we're blobbers

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#253 - 2013-11-01 05:24:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I am curious how some of you would answer this point.

If you take away reinforcement or remove timers or whatever, that will utterly de-incentivize any possibility of there ever being nullsec industry. If the cute little Rebel Alliance wannabes can just come blow up your pos without you being able in any way to do something about it(because you committed the grievous sin of sleeping instead of 24/7 watching your stuff), why would you bother?

Ergo, would this not completely devastate the T2 and T3 manufacturing industries, as well?

In fact, nevermind the industries, most of the "suggestions" would ruin the lives of anyone who lives in a wormhole.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the "solo player experience" and the "little guy" aren't worth that level of fuckery.

We'd just burn all the structures and then that would be it, highsec would be the totally the best and that's the end of it

You might see some stuff in wormholes, though the possibly is still there of one day having a highsec entrance that spews people who destroy everything in a couple of hours


Well, here's the really effing funny part about all of this.

All of the "little guys" clamoring for themselves to be given a chance at sov space? (we all know it's just a few malcontents, but for the sake of argument I shall continue) If they want even 50% of the things they claim to want, there is an area of space for them and what they want.

It's lowsec.

You hate hotdrops? Almost unheard of(95% of all hotdrops are in null). You hate the thought of slaving for your rental overlords? No one rents lowsec, well, not anyone sane, that is. You want small groups with shifting diplomacy? That's the name of the game. You want to be able to dock up and refit in space that isn't yours?

Etc. Everything but your flag in the system.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#254 - 2013-11-01 05:30:18 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You'll all whining and bitching constantly about not being able to make enough money from industry in 0.0. Getting rid of the people hiding behind timers would increase prices and make the market a lot more profitable. What's the problem there?


The problem is that your "suggestion" would make it the work of 30 minutes to destroy what takes hours to setup and online, and longer still to get production chains rolling.

You know, the thing you need to actually make the crap to sell T2 stuff?

Oh, and the reason null and lowsec industry needs a buff, is because every time someone brings it up(and the undeniable need to nerf highsec alongside it so as not to unbalance the game), some moronic day tripper who got a lucky loot drop in a Guristas site dives in with both feet in their mouth screaming at the top of their lungs that nullsec is fine.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#255 - 2013-11-01 05:30:19 UTC
ah lowsec, wonderful area where only hictors can tackle supercapitals

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#256 - 2013-11-01 05:39:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You'll all whining and bitching constantly about not being able to make enough money from industry in 0.0. Getting rid of the people hiding behind timers would increase prices and make the market a lot more profitable. What's the problem there?


The problem is that your "suggestion" would make it the work of 30 minutes to destroy what takes hours to setup and online, and longer still to get production chains rolling.

You know, the thing you need to actually make the crap to sell T2 stuff?

Oh, and the reason null and lowsec industry needs a buff, is because every time someone brings it up(and the undeniable need to nerf highsec alongside it so as not to unbalance the game), some moronic day tripper who got a lucky loot drop in a Guristas site dives in with both feet in their mouth screaming at the top of their lungs that nullsec is fine.

So you add a new POS module...

Anchored inside POS. Call it an Damage Absorbtion Array or something... it absorbs a % of damage being applied to the shield after a threshold is reached and redirects it into the shield matrix, scaling with amount of damage - ie - shooting the shield with CFC style blob < shooting the shield with a reasonably sized fleet.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#257 - 2013-11-01 05:41:52 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I prefer to think of it as a mechanic created problem...


Yes, and the causation mechanic you refer to is spelled ...

Loyalty Points.

Where I live we spell it differently. I think anyone who's directly benefiting from those problem mechanics would have to be a little biased, that would be you btw.



Aye, because I'm a 35000 man alliance. oh wait.

The sugar in these system is the sig spawns, not the anoms, not the belts. If you want to have your own private battle over the sugar in the sov systems, all you do is log ahead of the occupant and take them which forces the occupant to have to cover TZs to keep them, and actively seek an engagement with you. The CFC doesn't come to Vale to shoot squatters.

There isn't any need to shoot structures, I can't even put a pos gun in an anom, let alone a sig, and post rubicon relaese, a pos is not even a big advantage to me because you get an anchorable, so you can do deds, unrateds or mini profs, with a single account and you don't need a scout because you can refit covops/nullifier and you can go through gates with almost complete impunity.

TL;DR I can outsource dominion mechanics, and squatters can ignore it and renters and squatters can play amusing did I leave that sig and bm it or did it just spawn games and whatever else.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#258 - 2013-11-01 05:45:51 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You'll all whining and bitching constantly about not being able to make enough money from industry in 0.0. Getting rid of the people hiding behind timers would increase prices and make the market a lot more profitable. What's the problem there?


The problem is that your "suggestion" would make it the work of 30 minutes to destroy what takes hours to setup and online, and longer still to get production chains rolling.

You know, the thing you need to actually make the crap to sell T2 stuff?

Oh, and the reason null and lowsec industry needs a buff, is because every time someone brings it up(and the undeniable need to nerf highsec alongside it so as not to unbalance the game), some moronic day tripper who got a lucky loot drop in a Guristas site dives in with both feet in their mouth screaming at the top of their lungs that nullsec is fine.

So you add a new POS module...

Anchored inside POS. Call it an Damage Absorbtion Array or something... it absorbs a % of damage being applied to the shield after a threshold is reached and redirects it into the shield matrix, scaling with amount of damage - ie - shooting the shield with CFC style blob < shooting the shield with a reasonably sized fleet.



So, now we need to recode the API key notifications, rework the entire sov system, and now start adding modules to fill in the enormous blind spot in your bullshit suggestion? Do you not see how this is snowballing? Every time you propose anything, you have to propose 3 other things to fix the things you ruined with the first suggestion.

Or, people in general, and you in particular, could just get over your petty hangups and play the damned game the way it is.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2013-11-01 05:47:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You'll all whining and bitching constantly about not being able to make enough money from industry in 0.0. Getting rid of the people hiding behind timers would increase prices and make the market a lot more profitable. What's the problem there?


The problem is that your "suggestion" would make it the work of 30 minutes to destroy what takes hours to setup and online, and longer still to get production chains rolling.

You know, the thing you need to actually make the crap to sell T2 stuff?

Oh, and the reason null and lowsec industry needs a buff, is because every time someone brings it up(and the undeniable need to nerf highsec alongside it so as not to unbalance the game), some moronic day tripper who got a lucky loot drop in a Guristas site dives in with both feet in their mouth screaming at the top of their lungs that nullsec is fine.

So you add a new POS module...

Anchored inside POS. Call it an Damage Absorbtion Array or something... it absorbs a % of damage being applied to the shield after a threshold is reached and redirects it into the shield matrix, scaling with amount of damage - ie - shooting the shield with CFC style blob < shooting the shield with a reasonably sized fleet.



So, now we need to recode the API key notifications, rework the entire sov system, and now start adding modules to fill in the enormous blind spot in your bullshit suggestion? Do you not see how this is snowballing? Every time you propose anything, you have to propose 3 other things to fix the things you ruined with the first suggestion.

Or, people in general, and you in particular, could just get over your petty hangups and play the damned game the way it is.

lmao. No you don't have to do any of that. Stop making up excuses.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#260 - 2013-11-01 05:54:48 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
lmao. No you don't have to do any of that. Stop making up excuses.


You just told me I did, right after I told you that your suggestions would lead to the flaming death of T2 and T3 industry. I'll bold, italic, and underline it so you won't miss it.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
So you add a new POS module...


Liar.

As for the other two, yes, you have advocated for removal of API key notifications for timers. Probably in this very thread. You have also advocated for a complete rework of the sov system to deliberately benefit you.

Your self serving motivations are clear for all to see who have eyes. As is your general awfulness. This makes twice now I have had to go 4th grade style to your suggestions. The first was when you tried to propose that timers be doubled to 48 hours instead of 24, which has to be up there in the 10 stupidest things I have ever seen proposed on Assembly Hall.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.