These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

I saw a guy in a wheelchair pass a merlin the other day yelling 'out of my way ya slow turtle

Author
Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#1 - 2013-10-31 17:28:16 UTC
So the merlin has 310m/s wich whas made that way after the first frig changes cause it whas too op. the only ships that are slower are the bantam and the inquisitor both logi t1 frigs. Yes it's that bad.

Lets not forget that after this it also lost 5% of it's resists. so it's been bashed a few times now.

So on the other hand armor tanking is far superior to shield tanking for frigs cause of overal higher resist, more rep points for less cap and availability of mods like 'energized adaptive nano membrane' or 'adaptive nano plating' not having a shield equivalent.

It's not like recharge will save you in the average 10 second lasting frig battle.

So the upside of shieldtanking is supposed to be speed. But unless you plate and resist or trimark rig your ship you don't lose any not meaning you don't have good tank. (3x auxilliary nano pump rigged incursus) And lets not forget the addition of the skill 'armor layering' wich also has a big impact on plating and speed loss.

So i suggest changing the base speed from 310m/s to 320m/s wich isn't too much and at least puts it somewhat on par with it's counterparts. Cause it's srsly rediculously slow right now.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2013-10-31 17:40:55 UTC
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#3 - 2013-10-31 17:46:18 UTC
Batelle wrote:
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.



You can spend just as many lows on damage on a armor tanked frig. That's just a matter of choice.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#4 - 2013-10-31 17:55:00 UTC
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.



You can spend just as many lows on damage on a armor tanked frig. That's just a matter of choice.


Ok so you have 4 low slots on the same ship. On Version 1 you decide to shield tank it, which leaves room for 4 damage mods.
On Version 2 you fit an armor tank (SAAR for example) That leaves you with 3 slots, for 3 damage mods.

3 damage mods, is less than for 4

Ergo-

Ship B, while armor tanking has fewer damage mods, which means less DPS than ship A.

How is this a difficult concept to understand?
Jon Joringer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-10-31 17:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Joringer
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.



You can spend just as many lows on damage on a armor tanked frig. That's just a matter of choice.

That's a silly argument. So, if I choose to not fit an armor tank to my supposedly armor tanked frigate, I can use just as many damage mods as a shield tanked frigate. Okay, I get it now.

EDIT: Also, complaining about slowest race in EVE being slow. Hrm.
Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#6 - 2013-10-31 18:10:22 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.



You can spend just as many lows on damage on a armor tanked frig. That's just a matter of choice.


Ok so you have 4 low slots on the same ship. On Version 1 you decide to shield tank it, which leaves room for 4 damage mods.
On Version 2 you fit an armor tank (SAAR for example) That leaves you with 3 slots, for 3 damage mods.

3 damage mods, is less than for 4

Ergo-

Ship B, while armor tanking has fewer damage mods, which means less DPS than ship A.

How is this a difficult concept to understand?


And oppose to having 4 mids where a prop, point and web are in order to be viable pvp ship. Leaving you with 1 mid for wich you need to sacrifice a low in order to fit a medium extender cause smalls blow.

Now to the real point i'm not asking for any tank changes just a 10m/s increase in specifically the merlin since it has reduced tank now. Most other frigs have a 325m/s or higher. Wich still doesn't make the merlin the fastest on the block.

Seems like you're the one having difficulties understanding concepts.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-10-31 18:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
The Merlin is fine. It was well-balanced with the Incursus (the other brawly blaster frigate) until CCP decided that AARs were too weak.

It does not need to be fast; it is extremely tanky for a t1 frig. The only tankier t1 frigs are the Incursus (for reasons mentioned above) and the Punisher (which needs to become a slow brick to be tankier than a Merlin)


Furthermore, while speed is an upside of shield tanking, that does not mean that all shield ships are supposed to be fast, only that they're supposed to be faster than they would be if they armor buffer tanked.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#8 - 2013-10-31 18:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.



You can spend just as many lows on damage on a armor tanked frig. That's just a matter of choice.


Ok so you have 4 low slots on the same ship. On Version 1 you decide to shield tank it, which leaves room for 4 damage mods.
On Version 2 you fit an armor tank (SAAR for example) That leaves you with 3 slots, for 3 damage mods.

3 damage mods, is less than for 4

Ergo-

Ship B, while armor tanking has fewer damage mods, which means less DPS than ship A.

How is this a difficult concept to understand?


And oppose to having 4 mids where a prop, point and web are in order to be viable pvp ship. Leaving you with 1 mid for wich you need to sacrifice a low in order to fit a medium extender cause smalls blow.

Now to the real point i'm not asking for any tank changes just a 10m/s increase in specifically the merlin since it has reduced tank now. Most other frigs have a 325m/s or higher. Wich still doesn't make the merlin the fastest on the block.

Seems like you're the one having difficulties understanding concepts.



I highlighted the troll.

You are a troll, or a complete idiot.

Shield extenders do not go in low slots. No damage mods can be fit to the mid slots, so having to fit prop, point, really doesn't matter. What does matter is where damage mods go. They go in low slots, where coincidentially armor tank mods go.

Also if you think every 'viable' PvP ship needs a web, you are sadly mistaken.
Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#9 - 2013-10-31 18:17:12 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the advantage of shield tanking is having more damage mods, not speed.



You can spend just as many lows on damage on a armor tanked frig. That's just a matter of choice.


Ok so you have 4 low slots on the same ship. On Version 1 you decide to shield tank it, which leaves room for 4 damage mods.
On Version 2 you fit an armor tank (SAAR for example) That leaves you with 3 slots, for 3 damage mods.

3 damage mods, is less than for 4

Ergo-

Ship B, while armor tanking has fewer damage mods, which means less DPS than ship A.

How is this a difficult concept to understand?


And oppose to having 4 mids where a prop, point and web are in order to be viable pvp ship. [b]Leaving you with 1 mid for wich you need to sacrifice a low in order to fit a medium extender cause smalls blow[b].

Now to the real point i'm not asking for any tank changes just a 10m/s increase in specifically the merlin since it has reduced tank now. Most other frigs have a 325m/s or higher. Wich still doesn't make the merlin the fastest on the block.

Seems like you're the one having difficulties understanding concepts.



I highlighted the troll.

You are a troll, or a complete idiot.

Shield extenders do not go in low slots. No damage mods can be fit to the mid slots, so having to fit prop, point, really doesn't matter. What does matter is where damage mods go. They go in low slots, where coincidentially damage mods go.

Also if you think every 'viable' PvP ship needs a web, you are sadly mistaken.



You must be a highsec miner.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#10 - 2013-10-31 18:22:15 UTC
Yep, I swear on my life I have never violenced another ship
Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#11 - 2013-10-31 18:30:39 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Yep, I swear on my life I have never violenced another ship



So it seems ... yes a web is needed cause when you fly the slowest combat frig with the shortest engagement range you need a web (and no AC's have allot of fallof). And no mr 'i read everything' i didn't say shield extenders go on lows. It's called a micro auxiliary power core and you need to fit it on a low otherwise you can't fit a medium extender on a merlin.

Are you even aware that if the merlins speed whas raised to 320m/s it would STILL BE THE SLOWEST base speed combat frig out of all combat frigs.

So you're a highsec miner or some null guy. In both cases congrats you have mastered the difficult art of locking and pressing f1. You must feel proud of yourself.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#12 - 2013-10-31 19:01:36 UTC
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Yep, I swear on my life I have never violenced another ship



So it seems ... yes a web is needed cause when you fly the slowest combat frig with the shortest engagement range you need a web (and no AC's have allot of fallof). And no mr 'i read everything' i didn't say shield extenders go on lows. It's called a micro auxiliary power core and you need to fit it on a low otherwise you can't fit a medium extender on a merlin.

Are you even aware that if the merlins speed whas raised to 320m/s it would STILL BE THE SLOWEST base speed combat frig out of all combat frigs.

So you're a highsec miner or some null guy. In both cases congrats you have mastered the difficult art of locking and pressing f1. You must feel proud of yourself.


You are so worried about speed, yet it is one of the easiest stats to boost.

Try:

Snakes
Links
Quafe Zero
Zors Custom Hyper LInk
Acceleration control 603 / 5
Nanofibers
ODI's
Polycarbs

Also you can fix your grid issue a few ways.

Don't put an extender, put on an MASB
Don't use an Aux power core, try and anci current in the rig slots
Downgrade neutrons to ions

Merlin is a fine T1 frig, and an excellent Fleet tackle frig. Stop haing, and trolling.

But hey im just a care bear, so what do i know : /
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#13 - 2013-10-31 19:14:27 UTC
Seems to me the wheelchair needs a nerf, not buff the merlin.
Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#14 - 2013-10-31 19:15:50 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Yep, I swear on my life I have never violenced another ship



So it seems ... yes a web is needed cause when you fly the slowest combat frig with the shortest engagement range you need a web (and no AC's have allot of fallof). And no mr 'i read everything' i didn't say shield extenders go on lows. It's called a micro auxiliary power core and you need to fit it on a low otherwise you can't fit a medium extender on a merlin.

Are you even aware that if the merlins speed whas raised to 320m/s it would STILL BE THE SLOWEST base speed combat frig out of all combat frigs.

So you're a highsec miner or some null guy. In both cases congrats you have mastered the difficult art of locking and pressing f1. You must feel proud of yourself.


You are so worried about speed, yet it is one of the easiest stats to boost.

Try:

Snakes
Links
Quafe Zero
Zors Custom Hyper LInk
Acceleration control 603 / 5
Nanofibers
ODI's
Polycarbs

Also you can fix your grid issue a few ways.

Don't put an extender, put on an MASB
Don't use an Aux power core, try and anci current in the rig slots
Downgrade neutrons to ions

Merlin is a fine T1 frig, and an excellent Fleet tackle frig. Stop haing, and trolling.

But hey im just a care bear, so what do i know : /

You needed a long google to get that one together. I didn't ask for fitting advice, nor changes in anything tankwise. Also i'm pro keeping the merlin the slowest just not that slow. I can ask whatever i want, if i don't ask i won't gain anything. So why don't you go take some orders from your FC and go troll him :-p. Main thing is all those said things can also be done on other frigs. Kinda leaves out my specific merlin point out doesn't it? ofcourse i'm not asking you you're a little slow for that. Face it your an f1 monkey. Now press that f1 like your fc master tells you.

Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#15 - 2013-10-31 19:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Yep, I swear on my life I have never violenced another ship



So it seems ... yes a web is needed cause when you fly the slowest combat frig with the shortest engagement range you need a web (and no AC's have allot of fallof). And no mr 'i read everything' i didn't say shield extenders go on lows. It's called a micro auxiliary power core and you need to fit it on a low otherwise you can't fit a medium extender on a merlin.

Are you even aware that if the merlins speed whas raised to 320m/s it would STILL BE THE SLOWEST base speed combat frig out of all combat frigs.

So you're a highsec miner or some null guy. In both cases congrats you have mastered the difficult art of locking and pressing f1. You must feel proud of yourself.


You are so worried about speed, yet it is one of the easiest stats to boost.

Try:

Snakes
Links
Quafe Zero
Zors Custom Hyper LInk
Acceleration control 603 / 5
Nanofibers
ODI's
Polycarbs

Also you can fix your grid issue a few ways.

Don't put an extender, put on an MASB
Don't use an Aux power core, try and anci current in the rig slots
Downgrade neutrons to ions

Merlin is a fine T1 frig, and an excellent Fleet tackle frig. Stop haing, and trolling.

But hey im just a care bear, so what do i know : /

You needed a long google to get that one together. I didn't ask for fitting advice, nor changes in anything tankwise. Also i'm pro keeping the merlin the slowest just not that slow. I can ask whatever i want, if i don't ask i won't gain anything. So why don't you go take some orders from your FC and go troll him :-p. Main thing is all those said things can also be done on other frigs. Kinda leaves out my specific merlin point out doesn't it? ofcourse i'm not asking you you're a little slow for that. Face it your an f1 monkey. Now press that f1 like your fc master tells you.



If that is the case, take your brilliant idea to features and ideas board, which is not here. There CCP can properly analyze your baseless ideas. I am done talking to trash like you. Alts / newbs like you should learn a bit more before running their mouths.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-10-31 19:58:08 UTC
Merlin is fine.

stop being bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Kazekage Dono
Pertonas Development Inc
#17 - 2013-10-31 19:59:49 UTC
Chessur wrote:



If that is the case, take your brilliant idea to features and ideas board, which is not here. There CCP can properly analyze your baseless ideas. I am done talking to trash like you. Alts / newbs like you should learn a bit more before running their mouths.



Well in that case excuse me for posting in the wrong section. Just shows you how much i run my mouth off. I didn't know. So excuse me your highness for spending all my time in the game and not the forums ... I promise i will work on my shortcommings. I just didn't consider this to be a feature anything new.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#18 - 2013-11-01 05:26:19 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Kazekage Dono wrote:

And oppose to having 4 mids where a prop, point and web are in order to be viable pvp ship. Leaving you with 1 mid for wich you need to sacrifice a low in order to fit a medium extender cause smalls blow.

Now to the real point i'm not asking for any tank changes just a 10m/s increase in specifically the merlin since it has reduced tank now. Most other frigs have a 325m/s or higher. Wich still doesn't make the merlin the fastest on the block.

Seems like you're the one having difficulties understanding concepts.



I highlighted the troll.

You are a troll, or a complete idiot.

Shield extenders do not go in low slots. No damage mods can be fit to the mid slots, so having to fit prop, point, really doesn't matter. What does matter is where damage mods go. They go in low slots, where coincidentially armor tank mods go.

Also if you think every 'viable' PvP ship needs a web, you are sadly mistaken.


I think what he's getting at here is that you need to sacrifice a low for an MAPC to fit an MSE with prop and Neutrons, and maybe Ions, been a while since I fitted up a Merlin.

Also agree with "Also if you think every 'viable' PvP ship needs a web, you are sadly mistaken." however in the case of a blaster Merlin, you really do need a web if you're trying to solo.

The Merlin is fine though, fun ship to fly and is quite powerful in class, assuming you can get in range.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-11-01 10:38:38 UTC
Kazekage Dono wrote:
So the merlin has 310m/s wich whas made that way after the first frig changes cause it whas too op. the only ships that are slower are the bantam and the inquisitor both logi t1 frigs. Yes it's that bad.

Lets not forget that after this it also lost 5% of it's resists. so it's been bashed a few times now.

So on the other hand armor tanking is far superior to shield tanking for frigs cause of overal higher resist, more rep points for less cap and availability of mods like 'energized adaptive nano membrane' or 'adaptive nano plating' not having a shield equivalent.

It's not like recharge will save you in the average 10 second lasting frig battle.

So the upside of shieldtanking is supposed to be speed. But unless you plate and resist or trimark rig your ship you don't lose any not meaning you don't have good tank. (3x auxilliary nano pump rigged incursus) And lets not forget the addition of the skill 'armor layering' wich also has a big impact on plating and speed loss.

So i suggest changing the base speed from 310m/s to 320m/s wich isn't too much and at least puts it somewhat on par with it's counterparts. Cause it's srsly rediculously slow right now.



and? the caldari are supposed to have the lower top speed. It wil be a caldari one therefore, and why not the merlint hat is the most powerful?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-11-01 14:57:56 UTC
Butthurt. Butthurt everywhere.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

12Next page