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When do we get the deployable tractoring thing?

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2013-10-31 14:06:42 UTC
Mikokoel wrote:
gascanu wrote:


volume 50m3 capacity 3000m3
shield/armor/structure 5000/5000/75000 - probly will change
anchoring time is 45"
can't be launched closer that 6km to another mobile depot
can't be launched closer than 40 km from a tower/50 km from a station
can't refit subsystems

once you shoot down the shield it will go in reinf, no timer yet, so this is still in work


If you put a frigate in the 3,000m3 bay, can you board it?
Can you board shuttles?


No, the storage works like an anchored secure container.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Saidin Thor
The Odin Conspiracy
#62 - 2013-10-31 14:09:00 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You can scoop and reuse it. If you scoop it while it has items in the cargo, it will spawn a jetcan with those items which you can then loot what you'd like from.

Tractor speed is currently set at 2000m/s, but very well may change. We're aiming to tune it as a useful item but still leave value to be gained by going with a marauder or noctis tractoring instead. The key advantage of using a ship or course is the option to use more than one tractor beam at once.



HOLY SH!T B@LLS!!!!!




i JUST REALIZED YOU CAN JET CAN MINE AND THE STRUCTURE WILL PICK IT UP FOR YOU!!!!!



That's way better than getting can flipped, and would be awesome for fleet mining without Orcas.


Launch structure with an out of fleet, out of corp alt. Abandon cans once full. Sit with a hauler next to the tractor. Great success.
scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#63 - 2013-10-31 14:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: scimichar
Let's say you drop this after completing a forsaken hub. Will eve spawn another hub after x amount of time, or will the tractor thingy be considered a player and not spawn a new site? It should be the former, but knowing you guys, it would end up being the latter :)
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#64 - 2013-10-31 15:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Saidin Thor wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You can scoop and reuse it. If you scoop it while it has items in the cargo, it will spawn a jetcan with those items which you can then loot what you'd like from.

Tractor speed is currently set at 2000m/s, but very well may change. We're aiming to tune it as a useful item but still leave value to be gained by going with a marauder or noctis tractoring instead. The key advantage of using a ship or course is the option to use more than one tractor beam at once.



HOLY SH!T B@LLS!!!!!




i JUST REALIZED YOU CAN JET CAN MINE AND THE STRUCTURE WILL PICK IT UP FOR YOU!!!!!



That's way better than getting can flipped, and would be awesome for fleet mining without Orcas.


Launch structure with an out of fleet, out of corp alt. Abandon cans once full. Sit with a hauler next to the tractor. Great success.

I think anyone can loot from the auto tractor unit. Its really just a jet can with a really big tractor beam. So if you use it in a mining op someone can come and steal from it, and dump all your ore in their jet can.
Edit: Question for CCP Fozzie: What happens when two or more of these are deployed in the same area? Will they know not to tractor the same wreck? Also will they know not to tractor a wreck a player is tractoring?

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-10-31 15:30:36 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Saidin Thor wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You can scoop and reuse it. If you scoop it while it has items in the cargo, it will spawn a jetcan with those items which you can then loot what you'd like from.

Tractor speed is currently set at 2000m/s, but very well may change. We're aiming to tune it as a useful item but still leave value to be gained by going with a marauder or noctis tractoring instead. The key advantage of using a ship or course is the option to use more than one tractor beam at once.



HOLY SH!T B@LLS!!!!!




i JUST REALIZED YOU CAN JET CAN MINE AND THE STRUCTURE WILL PICK IT UP FOR YOU!!!!!



That's way better than getting can flipped, and would be awesome for fleet mining without Orcas.


Launch structure with an out of fleet, out of corp alt. Abandon cans once full. Sit with a hauler next to the tractor. Great success.

I think anyone can loot from the auto tractor unit. Its really just a jet can with a really big tractor beam. So if you use it in a mining op someone can come and steal from it, and dump all your ore in their jet can.
Edit: Question for CCP Fozzie: What happens when two or more of these are deployed in the same area? Will they know not to tractor the same wreck? Also will they know not to tractor a wreck a player is tractoring?


No, it can not be looted by anyone....
It also does not work for anyone but yourself.


However, what I'm wondering is, does that include when you're in a fleet?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#66 - 2013-10-31 16:01:28 UTC
scimichar wrote:
Let's say you drop this after completing a forsaken hub. Will eve spawn another hub after x amount of time, or will the tractor thingy be considered a player and not spawn a new site? It should be the former, but knowing you guys, it would end up being the latter :)

It won't keep sites open.

Vincent Athena wrote:

I think anyone can loot from the auto tractor unit. Its really just a jet can with a really big tractor beam. So if you use it in a mining op someone can come and steal from it, and dump all your ore in their jet can.
Edit: Question for CCP Fozzie: What happens when two or more of these are deployed in the same area? Will they know not to tractor the same wreck? Also will they know not to tractor a wreck a player is tractoring?

Only the owner can loot it, although others can blow it up and loot the wreck. However to use it for jetcan mining the miners will need to abandon their containers, which means that if someone else drops another tractor unit nearby..... Lol
And to answer your question about the tractor beams, no tractor beams can activate on an item that is currently being tractored by something else. That includes the tractor deployable.

Joe Risalo wrote:

However, what I'm wondering is, does that include when you're in a fleet?

These structures are strictly personal at this time, so they don't care what fleet you're in. It will only grab cans belonging to your fleet mates if they abandon those cans.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#67 - 2013-10-31 16:14:22 UTC
Fozzie; and this includes depots? Huh. It would be much niftier if these operated like carrier hangars-- corp or fleet access, as designated. I'd been thinking to lead some WH expeditions with new corpmates, and a depot seemed like the easy way to arrange things. I guess we can always set up a depot city. :/

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#68 - 2013-10-31 16:35:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[
...
And to answer your question about the tractor beams, no tractor beams can activate on an item that is currently being tractored by something else. That includes the tractor deployable.

Aye, only one tractor beam on an item. But if there are two Auto Tractor Units in an area, what happens? Who gets what wreck? If there are two of these in a belt and someone abandons a wreck, which ATU gets the wreck?

If there are two ATUs out and a field of wrecks, what happens if both happen to try for the same wreck? Will one tractor a wreck, the other try, fail, then just sit there doing nothing? Or will it move on to another wreck?

What Im wondering is if I could put 6 of these in a Noctis, put all salvagers in the highs, deploy all the ATUs and clear a site really fast.

If you don't know, get me some and Ill test.

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Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-10-31 17:07:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mikokoel wrote:
gascanu wrote:


volume 50m3 capacity 3000m3
shield/armor/structure 5000/5000/75000 - probly will change
anchoring time is 45"
can't be launched closer that 6km to another mobile depot
can't be launched closer than 40 km from a tower/50 km from a station
can't refit subsystems

once you shoot down the shield it will go in reinf, no timer yet, so this is still in work


If you put a frigate in the 3,000m3 bay, can you board it?
Can you board shuttles?


No, the storage works like an anchored secure container.


Can my fleet use it's refiting service or is it like tractor - personal only?

Can this be used in combat for in-combat refit?

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#70 - 2013-10-31 17:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Makoto Priano wrote:
Fozzie; and this includes depots? Huh. It would be much niftier if these operated like carrier hangars-- corp or fleet access, as designated. I'd been thinking to lead some WH expeditions with new corpmates, and a depot seemed like the easy way to arrange things. I guess we can always set up a depot city. :/

They are small. Just have everyone keep one in their ship. Deploy only when needed. Edit: Ive heard they can be used for in-combat refit, except they have a 45 second anchoring time. So PvE it seems better than PvP (especially as players can shoot it).

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#71 - 2013-10-31 17:25:21 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mikokoel wrote:
gascanu wrote:


volume 50m3 capacity 3000m3
shield/armor/structure 5000/5000/75000 - probly will change
anchoring time is 45"
can't be launched closer that 6km to another mobile depot
can't be launched closer than 40 km from a tower/50 km from a station
can't refit subsystems

once you shoot down the shield it will go in reinf, no timer yet, so this is still in work


If you put a frigate in the 3,000m3 bay, can you board it?
Can you board shuttles?


No, the storage works like an anchored secure container.


Can my fleet use it's refiting service or is it like tractor - personal only?

Can this be used in combat for in-combat refit?


Refitting on the mobile home is personal only, it doesn't care about fleets or corps or standings.

And yes it can be used in combat, although your opponent can reinforce it very easily which shuts off the refitting service.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-10-31 17:50:50 UTC
Fozzie,

Are there any plans to make changes to the Marauder bonus, cause the way I see it, even if it were slower than a marauder tractor, the range would be enough to overpower marauders.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#73 - 2013-10-31 18:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Joe Risalo wrote:
Fozzie,

Are there any plans to make changes to the Marauder bonus, cause the way I see it, even if it were slower than a marauder tractor, the range would be enough to overpower marauders.


Even if you were to say "The marauder has an advantage because it can move" I'd have to say that Marauders don't quite move fast enough to balance out a 125km reach and 2km/sec tractor velocity - both of which are superior to the Marauder's own bonused amounts by a very significant margin.

I'm not saying "nerf the tractor structure". Absolutely don't do that. Do change the bonuses on the Marauders though.

The Tractor structure currently has ~400% boost to range. (125 km, 400% is 120km)
Its current velocity boost is slightly less than 300%. (2,000 m/sec, 300% is 2,400 m/sec)

The Noctis has a 300% boost to range at Ore Industrial V. (96 km)
With Ore Industrial V, it also has a 300% boost to velocity (2,400 m/sec) which keeps it balanced with the tractor structure.

Marauders should, in my opinion, have their 100% boost to range (48km) changed to 200%. (72 km)
Increase their 100% tractor velocity bonus (1,200 m/sec) to 200% as well. (1,800 m/sec)

This keeps the Noctis in its place as better than Marauders at tractoring and also leaves some usefulness for the tractor structure while making sure the Marauders' bonus is still relevant. It also synergizes with Bastion Mode - A 72km tractor range should generally be enough to reach anything that Bastioned weapons can kill (cruise missiles notwithstanding).
marVLs
#74 - 2013-10-31 19:03:34 UTC
Why so long onlining time? Can't it be instant or at least 10s?
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2013-10-31 19:45:56 UTC
Can it be deployed in complexes?
Photon Ceray
Palmyra Universal Enterprise
#76 - 2013-10-31 20:00:39 UTC
look, for PVE if this module is gonna take longer to tractor the wrecks than it takes to clear a room in a mission the it's pointless.

for PVP if it takes longer than a gang can wait and defend the field then it's also worthless.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-10-31 20:21:54 UTC
Photon Ceray wrote:
look, for PVE if this module is gonna take longer to tractor the wrecks than it takes to clear a room in a mission the it's pointless.


True, if you're depending on the wrecks coming to you while you're in the pocket.

However, my plan is to drop on or two of these in a pocket and bookmark.
Then clear the rest of the rooms, in the same manner.

After that, I would turn in the mission and warp to the bookmarked structures with a noctis using 6-7 t2 salvagers.
Scoop loot and structure, salvage the wrecks and pull in any that the structure didn't get, then move on to the next.

IMO, it makes things to a bit faster, because most if not all of the wreck will have already been tractored in.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#78 - 2013-10-31 20:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vladimir Norkoff
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Only the owner can take from it, everyone else is welcome to shoot it.
Why was it designed this way? The act of stealing is one of the greatest motivators for combat - which leads to ships being blown up, which leads to a vibrant economy and game in general. Thievery pisses people off. When somebody else gains while you lose, it inspires you to violence. And violence is good.

Making it shootable actually deters combat. First nobody gains from it - it's simply an act of denial. Which does not generate quite as severe a reaction. Furthermore, the act of shooting the structure makes people think "oh wait, he could shoot me!". Which given how risk averse players are, generally leads to nothing happening. Plus it has 85K hitpoints. So if somebody is capable of killing it before you can stroll over and rescoop it, then they'd probably be able to kill your mission ship. So yet another reason NOT to engage in combat.

So please, rethink this. Make them lootable like a standard jetcan. Bring back thievery to hi-sec. Let it be filled with flashing yellow suspects. Let there be anger and rivalries. Let there be traps set to ambush the evil loot ninjas. Let there be wars declared to purge the thieving nuisances. Let this game be a sandbox, instead of the amusement park it's slowly becoming.

Note - I fully intend to use this module while farming SOE LPs in Osmon.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#79 - 2013-10-31 21:02:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Can you use the mobile depot to refit mid-combat?

Like if you are gatecamping, can you use it so your falcon always has the right racial jammers? If you get bridged on can you use it to refit to all stabs?

Can it be anchored on a gate?

Edit: In case its not obvious, I feel these are some particularly overpowered and exploitative uses of the depot, particularly the using it to constantly refit ecm, since jammers being race locked is the main balancing factor for ecm.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#80 - 2013-10-31 22:12:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mikokoel wrote:
gascanu wrote:


volume 50m3 capacity 3000m3
shield/armor/structure 5000/5000/75000 - probly will change
anchoring time is 45"
can't be launched closer that 6km to another mobile depot
can't be launched closer than 40 km from a tower/50 km from a station
can't refit subsystems

once you shoot down the shield it will go in reinf, no timer yet, so this is still in work


If you put a frigate in the 3,000m3 bay, can you board it?
Can you board shuttles?


No, the storage works like an anchored secure container.


Can my fleet use it's refiting service or is it like tractor - personal only?

Can this be used in combat for in-combat refit?


Refitting on the mobile home is personal only, it doesn't care about fleets or corps or standings.

And yes it can be used in combat, although your opponent can reinforce it very easily which shuts off the refitting service.



So as for what it will tractor. It will operate like the first version of salvage drones only hitting what you have goten the final blow on and blue wrecks. It doesnt matter if its a corp wreck or an alliance wreck, Only the droppers wrecks and blue wrecks? This seems kind of lame.