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Every time we make a clone, damage COULD be done to our DNA.

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CCP Falcon
#21 - 2013-09-12 13:39:33 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
LordSwift wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cloning in EVE is not representative of cloning that's been trialed in the real world.

A capsuleer is not a true "clone" by the definition.

A capsuleer's body is effectively a lump of re-constituted biomass and giblets assembled around a skeleton (either medically grown bone, or synthetic polymer) in the form of a blank. All the blanks grown are identical.

It's only when a sample of the capsuleer's DNA is introduced to the mix does the clone take on the appearance of the capsuleer in question through genetic sculpting.

In the most brutal of descriptions, pulling no punches, a capsuleer is effectively a can of spam with human DNA injected into it to make physically recognizable and to make its brain match that of the mind to be hosted.

On the most fundamental level, a capsuleer's clone is nothing more than a tool they use, just as they would a spacecraft or weapon. It either gets shot from under them, or they toss it away and get a new one when it wears out.



Question i have then, we may be a body of spam :) but would it function like a human body like normal. i.e live like normal out the pod if we retire, grow old, have kids? if we wanted to that is.


When you unplug from the capsule, you're just as vulnerable as any other meat-sack out there Smile

Also, just for reference, everything I posted there is freely available in EVE's published prime fiction, you just have to read and digest it, something I enthsiastically encourage you all to keep doing as much as possible. Big smile


Lawl.

Giblets.


Giblets are the best Big smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#22 - 2013-09-12 17:59:15 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
LordSwift wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cloning in EVE is not representative of cloning that's been trialed in the real world.

A capsuleer is not a true "clone" by the definition.

A capsuleer's body is effectively a lump of re-constituted biomass and giblets assembled around a skeleton (either medically grown bone, or synthetic polymer) in the form of a blank. All the blanks grown are identical.

It's only when a sample of the capsuleer's DNA is introduced to the mix does the clone take on the appearance of the capsuleer in question through genetic sculpting.

In the most brutal of descriptions, pulling no punches, a capsuleer is effectively a can of spam with human DNA injected into it to make physically recognizable and to make its brain match that of the mind to be hosted.

On the most fundamental level, a capsuleer's clone is nothing more than a tool they use, just as they would a spacecraft or weapon. It either gets shot from under them, or they toss it away and get a new one when it wears out.



Question i have then, we may be a body of spam :) but would it function like a human body like normal. i.e live like normal out the pod if we retire, grow old, have kids? if we wanted to that is.


When you unplug from the capsule, you're just as vulnerable as any other meat-sack out there Smile

Also, just for reference, everything I posted there is freely available in EVE's published prime fiction, you just have to read and digest it, something I enthsiastically encourage you all to keep doing as much as possible. Big smile


Lawl.

Giblets.


Giblets are the best Big smile



CCP Falcon is secretly a Rogue Drone

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-09-17 19:36:26 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
LordSwift wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cloning in EVE is not representative of cloning that's been trialed in the real world.

A capsuleer is not a true "clone" by the definition.

A capsuleer's body is effectively a lump of re-constituted biomass and giblets assembled around a skeleton (either medically grown bone, or synthetic polymer) in the form of a blank. All the blanks grown are identical.

It's only when a sample of the capsuleer's DNA is introduced to the mix does the clone take on the appearance of the capsuleer in question through genetic sculpting.

In the most brutal of descriptions, pulling no punches, a capsuleer is effectively a can of spam with human DNA injected into it to make physically recognizable and to make its brain match that of the mind to be hosted.

On the most fundamental level, a capsuleer's clone is nothing more than a tool they use, just as they would a spacecraft or weapon. It either gets shot from under them, or they toss it away and get a new one when it wears out.



Question i have then, we may be a body of spam :) but would it function like a human body like normal. i.e live like normal out the pod if we retire, grow old, have kids? if we wanted to that is.


When you unplug from the capsule, you're just as vulnerable as any other meat-sack out there Smile

Also, just for reference, everything I posted there is freely available in EVE's published prime fiction, you just have to read and digest it, something I enthsiastically encourage you all to keep doing as much as possible. Big smile



If thats the case then why do we even bother with the cloning process? its always sounded like a hell of a lot of work to me when you could achieve the same effect by placing the cloned brain in a cyberized body - ghost in the shell style. Hell, why do we even need to bother with a body? Why not just permanently suspend the brain in the pod and use virtual presence devices for when the capsuler needs to put their boots on the ground?
Going through the whole process of creating blank clones might make sense for the dust bunnies - they need to interface with vehicles and gear designed for pre-existing troops - but for a pod pilot the cloned body seems entirely unnecessary. The moment I step out of my pod I give up everything that makes me a capsuler - I go from an immortal body, feeling the solar winds blow across my steel skin, able to call down thunder and fire like angry gods of old, to a bag of flesh and bones as vulnerable as any other mortal. Why would I ever give that up? In what context would it ever make sense to give that up and step out of my pod?
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#24 - 2013-09-20 16:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Kel hound wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
LordSwift wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cloning in EVE is not representative of cloning that's been trialed in the real world.

A capsuleer is not a true "clone" by the definition.

A capsuleer's body is effectively a lump of re-constituted biomass and giblets assembled around a skeleton (either medically grown bone, or synthetic polymer) in the form of a blank. All the blanks grown are identical.

It's only when a sample of the capsuleer's DNA is introduced to the mix does the clone take on the appearance of the capsuleer in question through genetic sculpting.

In the most brutal of descriptions, pulling no punches, a capsuleer is effectively a can of spam with human DNA injected into it to make physically recognizable and to make its brain match that of the mind to be hosted.

On the most fundamental level, a capsuleer's clone is nothing more than a tool they use, just as they would a spacecraft or weapon. It either gets shot from under them, or they toss it away and get a new one when it wears out.



Question i have then, we may be a body of spam :) but would it function like a human body like normal. i.e live like normal out the pod if we retire, grow old, have kids? if we wanted to that is.


When you unplug from the capsule, you're just as vulnerable as any other meat-sack out there Smile

Also, just for reference, everything I posted there is freely available in EVE's published prime fiction, you just have to read and digest it, something I enthsiastically encourage you all to keep doing as much as possible. Big smile



If thats the case then why do we even bother with the cloning process? its always sounded like a hell of a lot of work to me when you could achieve the same effect by placing the cloned brain in a cyberized body - ghost in the shell style. Hell, why do we even need to bother with a body? Why not just permanently suspend the brain in the pod and use virtual presence devices for when the capsuler needs to put their boots on the ground?
Going through the whole process of creating blank clones might make sense for the dust bunnies - they need to interface with vehicles and gear designed for pre-existing troops - but for a pod pilot the cloned body seems entirely unnecessary. The moment I step out of my pod I give up everything that makes me a capsuler - I go from an immortal body, feeling the solar winds blow across my steel skin, able to call down thunder and fire like angry gods of old, to a bag of flesh and bones as vulnerable as any other mortal. Why would I ever give that up? In what context would it ever make sense to give that up and step out of my pod?


This is the beauty of EVE; there is the lure of the monster, where your image is just a mask for what you really might be within the capsule. You might be completely withered, having never stepped outside the capsule ever, even within your deaths. Essentially, as you put it, a cloned brain in a cyberized body.

Unfortunately, even as the monster, clones are made for the majority, and to embrace immortality means you HAVE to still transfer (in the event of a capsule's destruction) into a new body that isn't typically cyberized for sake of the template. But it is entirely possible to capture this image or to evolve to this state inbetween the process. Such a capsuleer can be witnessed here.

At the end of the day, you share the stars with a number of people who want to retain their humanity (just watch the crowd in the "The Summit" channel and IGS sections of the forums for examples of these people). These people want to be able to live in the pretend world that they're still human, so the megacorps surely still offer them (much like the choice of choosing one's hairstyle/color) the choice of incorporating these features into your clones. (Thus the template needs to be able to accommodate such requests.)

Want to keep a scar? Your clone can retain it.
Not happy with the length of your manhood? You clone can be updated.

The template for these people surely conforms to present CONCORD standards for appearance (or just those imposed by the clone megacorps) for your avatar (hence you can't presently look inhuman). That does not mean outside the capsule, you look like your avatar at all (especially if you've not updated your picture in a long time). (Am surprised more people don't RP this side of capsuleering.) Not using the captains quarters for your space venturing is very much in tune with never leaving one's capsule and thus revealing your true appearance.

Perhaps in time with more clothing options, one can RP these standards sliding in favor of the potential monsters a majority of us are, as witnessed in Xenocracy.

Until then, this is all just translating game mechanics.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Altalicious
JT Investments LLC
#25 - 2013-09-27 14:18:00 UTC
So we are literally "spam in a can?"
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-09-29 07:30:05 UTC
Altalicious wrote:
So we are literally "spam in a can?"

Despite all my rage,
I'm still spam in a can!
Kaizoe Ocshtau
Hellish Inc
Hellish Incorporated
#27 - 2013-09-29 19:16:39 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
a capsuleer is effectively a can of spam with human DNA

So... we could, essentially be like Egg and Spam; Egg, Bacon and Spam; Egg, Bacon, Sausage and Spam; Spam, Bacon, Sausage and Spam; Spam, Egg, Spam, Spam, Bacon and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, Egg and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Baked Beans, Spam, Spam, Spam and Spam; Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top of Spam?
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#28 - 2013-09-29 19:58:34 UTC
Only from a Gallente...Roll

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
John Tomplin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-10-06 02:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: John Tomplin
I was discussing the feasibility of turning a "chunk of spam" into a brain with my brother over last weekend. He is a neurologist and epileptologist in Canada and showed me some work that has been done recently in that area in real life. It involves nanotechnology, stem cells and scaffolding at the nanoscale level. So this is what "CNS spam chunk" programming might look like at the end of the day:

Pubmed Article on scaffolding of human neurons from stem cells
PubMed Article abstract on regeneration of neural tissue

Its also my understanding that the big problem is not the change of genes when they clone, but the changes in gene expression. This causes a wide variety of problems in cloned tissues, and this hurdle must obviously be overcome before cloning can be utilized fully. The "flash Cooked Spam method" That EVE uses may bypass this problem, but the obstacles to cloning are not insurmountable anyways. Big smile

__________________________________________________________________________________________
The Teacher Cover
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#30 - 2013-10-10 16:53:51 UTC
And you don't even necessarily look like your original body, after all you customize it to how you want to look when you start the journey and start with a standard form. I don't think it has to be "your" DNA but merely racial/bloodline DNA customized to your preferences, the ultimate body mod - the Gallente kids just go wild over it these days.
C krawiec
TessoCorp
#31 - 2013-10-21 19:30:43 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

When you unplug from the capsule, you're just as vulnerable as any other meat-sack out there Smile

Also, just for reference, everything I posted there is freely available in EVE's published prime fiction, you just have to read and digest it, something I enthsiastically encourage you all to keep doing as much as possible. Big smile
CCP Falcon this begs the question, are there buffered back-up copies of capsuleers existing anywhere in the system that can re-animated once a link is lost with a capsuleer for any preset period of time?

Granted you would lose memory of everything that transpired from your last buffered back-up but at least you'd be alive again. Is this how the "Broker" operated with video and audio recordings of what his un-capsulized clones had experienced prior to their deaths?

It uses subspace networks, which means that it always has a direct link to your clone vat. And if for some reason you lost connection, it would automatically shut down and link you, effectively abandoning your ship and capsule. So consider it like getting podded the moment you eject from your ship. At least that's my theory.
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#32 - 2013-10-24 21:19:57 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cloning in EVE is not representative of cloning that's been trialed in the real world.

A capsuleer is not a true "clone" by the definition.

A capsuleer's body is effectively a lump of re-constituted biomass and giblets assembled around a skeleton (either medically grown bone, or synthetic polymer) in the form of a blank. All the blanks grown are identical.

It's only when a sample of the capsuleer's DNA is introduced to the mix does the clone take on the appearance of the capsuleer in question through genetic sculpting.

In the most brutal of descriptions, pulling no punches, a capsuleer is effectively a can of spam with human DNA injected into it to make physically recognizable and to make its brain match that of the mind to be hosted.

On the most fundamental level, a capsuleer's clone is nothing more than a tool they use, just as they would a spacecraft or weapon. It either gets shot from under them, or they toss it away and get a new one when it wears out.


Synthetic polymer!

Can we get a box to check so we can actually have synthetic polymer skeletons? It would be like the 'ancestry' part of our character. Meaningless and rarely if ever seen, but still cool to be able to set in stone.
MacAllister Rova
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-10-31 16:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: MacAllister Rova
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
And you don't even necessarily look like your original body, after all you customize it to how you want to look when you start the journey and start with a standard form. I don't think it has to be "your" DNA but merely racial/bloodline DNA customized to your preferences, the ultimate body mod - the Gallente kids just go wild over it these days.

Would not this idea lead to customizing cloned bodies to serve a purpose?

Not just making yourself stronger and more agile when you fight in DUST514, or smaller and able to take higher G forces flying in Valkyrie, but swapping things to make yourself look like someone else to infiltrate and spy on others?

Why not go as far as to swap gender and see how the other side lives?
How many female avatar with male agents do we already have in the game?
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