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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#1421 - 2013-10-30 18:51:33 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
(For starters, I'd look into the mis-reporting API. If you want to generate conflict, you want people knowing about their POS being drained if they're paying enough attention to send a defense gang.)


That could be just as easily achieved by shooting the POS modules outside. Once Siphons are introduced, every corp/alliance will be sending a fleet to these anyways, just on the off-chance that there is a Siphon at the POS.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1422 - 2013-10-30 20:02:10 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

But according to you and your people, all the money is made in high sec off those evil mission runners. What changed all of the sudden where low sec was the source for all the income in the game?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#1423 - 2013-10-30 20:14:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

Arent all those low sec r64 owned by PL anyway Roll

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1424 - 2013-10-30 23:20:15 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

Arent all those low sec r64 owned by PL anyway Roll

That should be the case, yes.

Nice and accessible for your siphoning pleasure.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1425 - 2013-10-31 00:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Miner Hottie
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

But according to you and your people, all the money is made in high sec off those evil mission runners. What changed all of the sudden where low sec was the source for all the income in the game?


Actually most goons and other sensible nullsec dwellers complain about the risk/reward balance of hi-sec, especially incursion runners and L4 mission runners.

These siphons seem to increase this inbalance. But, hey you are a one of these "grr goons, moons are passive income" meme spewers who is so skilled at Eve that he outsources living in his space, so what do you care or know?

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1426 - 2013-10-31 00:37:52 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

But according to you and your people, all the money is made in high sec off those evil mission runners. What changed all of the sudden where low sec was the source for all the income in the game?


Actually most goons and other sensible nullsec dwellers complain about the risk/reward balance of hi-sec, especially incursion runners and L4 mission runners.

These siphons seem to increase this inbalance. But, hey you are a one of these "grr goons, moons are passive income" meme spewers who is so skilled at Eve that he outsources living in his space, so what do you care or know?

But earlier you all were going on how the Siphon is the perfect griefer tool for Goons and CFC. Now suddenly it is the perfect tool for hi sec players.

Did CCP make an update on the Siphon I missed? Please give us a link to this announcement. Thanks in advance. ♥
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1427 - 2013-10-31 00:50:21 UTC
No, you're just being painfully obtuse and disingenuous, as usual.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1428 - 2013-10-31 01:09:28 UTC
I must have also missed how moon mining is low secs main income source and how any loss of it will kill a low sec alliance....
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1429 - 2013-10-31 02:11:03 UTC
I think if you read between the lines of this expansion CCP are saying there needs to be some risk and consequence to having vast empires controlled by relatively few players.

The modules, especially this one are easily defensible against by small alliances that have many members in a small area. The ones that will hurt will be the big alliances that have relatively few to no members in the areas these are deployed.

CFC can go and spam these all over New Eden but if they spam them against the little guys I think they'll find those little guys quick to remove them while if we spam them against CFC given all its space, they'll be much slower to find and remove them.

I think this is great.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1430 - 2013-10-31 02:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: NinjaTurtle
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I think if you read between the lines of this expansion CCP are saying there needs to be some risk and consequence to having vast empires controlled by relatively few players.

The modules, especially this one are easily defensible against by small alliances that have many members in a small area. The ones that will hurt will be the big alliances that have relatively few to no members in the areas these are deployed.

CFC can go and spam these all over New Eden but if they spam them against the little guys I think they'll find those little guys quick to remove them while if we spam them against CFC given all its space, they'll be much slower to find and remove them.

I think this is great.


Yeah basically this. There's really no reason that large alliances should be able to hold the most valuable moons 3-4-5 or more regions away with only the threat of overwhelming retaliation keeping them from being screwed with.

The stats of the griefing mechanic just need to be a little bit better than what's been presented here.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1431 - 2013-10-31 03:56:56 UTC
I will say I am not sold on the 10% destroyed in the process of siphoning. I was wondering what are everyone's thoughts if nothing was destroyed in the process?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1432 - 2013-10-31 03:57:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I think if you read between the lines of this expansion CCP are saying there needs to be some risk and consequence to having vast empires controlled by relatively few players.

The modules, especially this one are easily defensible against by small alliances that have many members in a small area. The ones that will hurt will be the big alliances that have relatively few to no members in the areas these are deployed.

CFC can go and spam these all over New Eden but if they spam them against the little guys I think they'll find those little guys quick to remove them while if we spam them against CFC given all its space, they'll be much slower to find and remove them.

I think this is great.

Shhhhh. Don't tarnish this thread with facts.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1433 - 2013-10-31 07:31:59 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

But according to you and your people, all the money is made in high sec off those evil mission runners. What changed all of the sudden where low sec was the source for all the income in the game?


Actually most goons and other sensible nullsec dwellers complain about the risk/reward balance of hi-sec, especially incursion runners and L4 mission runners.

These siphons seem to increase this inbalance. But, hey you are a one of these "grr goons, moons are passive income" meme spewers who is so skilled at Eve that he outsources living in his space, so what do you care or know?

it's all for the sake of progodlegend's dream

an eve where the goons' 0.0 dream is over

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1434 - 2013-10-31 07:40:20 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I think if you read between the lines of this expansion CCP are saying there needs to be some risk and consequence to having vast empires controlled by relatively few players.

If by "risk and consequence" you mean having a trial alt per POS and clocking in on them once an hour, then sure.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#1435 - 2013-10-31 09:01:12 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I will say I am not sold on the 10% destroyed in the process of siphoning. I was wondering what are everyone's thoughts if nothing was destroyed in the process?

Why not

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1436 - 2013-10-31 11:00:30 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I think if you read between the lines of this expansion CCP are saying there needs to be some risk and consequence to having vast empires controlled by relatively few players.

The modules, especially this one are easily defensible against by small alliances that have many members in a small area. The ones that will hurt will be the big alliances that have relatively few to no members in the areas these are deployed.

CFC can go and spam these all over New Eden but if they spam them against the little guys I think they'll find those little guys quick to remove them while if we spam them against CFC given all its space, they'll be much slower to find and remove them.

I think this is great.


Yeah basically this. There's really no reason that large alliances should be able to hold the most valuable moons 3-4-5 or more regions away with only the threat of overwhelming retaliation keeping them from being screwed with.

The stats of the griefing mechanic just need to be a little bit better than what's been presented here.
Curious, what do you mean by "griefing mechanic"? If you mean simply syphoning and disposing of goo then I hope you don't fly anything other than T1 ships. The implications of simple griefing are pretty vast and I for 1 don't want to be paying 200 or 300 mil for my T2 cruisers.

Do you not think there would be retaliation if people were to start placing syphon's on R64's in nul ??
And I wouldn't say 26,000+ players is a small number to be spread over 3, 4 or 5 regions.

If you really think retaliation only a THREAT go take their moons, if it is really only a threat you should not meet with resistance. Don't be upset when a fleet of 200 or 300 turn up to defend the moon will you. If you have spent any time in SOV nul at all, you know the threat is very real. A fleet of 20 can become 100 and an alliance of 2500 can become a coalition 30,000 with 1 ping.

** I too believe large entities should not be able to control the majority of resources but reality is, that's the way it works. In eve as in RL the big guy gets to keep the ball, until someone bigger comes along to take it from him.
In the case of moon mining it is going to take a lot more than syphon's to change this balance of power. All syphon's will succeed in doing is pushing prices up for everything related to moon goo. (exactly as CCP wants it)


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1437 - 2013-10-31 17:10:47 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
In eve as in RL the big guy gets to keep the ball, until someone bigger comes along to take it from him.


You could be smaller and smarter but in reality the smarter people are either also quite big or are content with their status in game. They certainly aren't whining about how it isn't fair they're small.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1438 - 2013-11-01 06:45:48 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
In eve as in RL the big guy gets to keep the ball, until someone bigger comes along to take it from him.


You could be smaller and smarter but in reality the smarter people are either also quite big or are content with their status in game. They certainly aren't whining about how it isn't fair they're small.

Do you honestly think the few "small" alliances with R64's make up around 80% of holdings? I think you will find they possibly make up 20% with a big push towards being over generous with % and have a lot more to lose and are at much higher risk of losing it than the mega corps who make up the other 80% of R64 holdings.
And to be fair, how do you know they aren't "whining " as you put it, about the way syphon's are being implemented?

Saying you need to be big to be considered smart or content with their place in the game is not entirely correct.

Anybody who has moon mining operations and says they are 'content' right now is either a fool or have not bothered to look at the implications of syphon's. I include the big moon goo holders in this because right now every moon is at risk , although some (smaller groups) more than others.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1439 - 2013-11-01 11:03:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Yeep wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
In eve as in RL the big guy gets to keep the ball, until someone bigger comes along to take it from him.


You could be smaller and smarter but in reality the smarter people are either also quite big or are content with their status in game. They certainly aren't whining about how it isn't fair they're small.

Current day alliances are built on the whines of the past or do you think the mechanics have always been the way they are now. I'm not whining, I'm winning.

Edit: also I think its ironic your comment since the reason we have the ability to set timers is because of all the whining about ping ponging hah

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1440 - 2013-11-01 11:23:16 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can't wait until the whine thread about these after Rubicon comes out
"CCP goons are siphoning everyone's lowsec moongoo and nobody can make any isk anymore!"

But according to you and your people, all the money is made in high sec off those evil mission runners. What changed all of the sudden where low sec was the source for all the income in the game?


Actually most goons and other sensible nullsec dwellers complain about the risk/reward balance of hi-sec, especially incursion runners and L4 mission runners.

These siphons seem to increase this inbalance. But, hey you are a one of these "grr goons, moons are passive income" meme spewers who is so skilled at Eve that he outsources living in his space, so what do you care or know?

But earlier you all were going on how the Siphon is the perfect griefer tool for Goons and CFC. Now suddenly it is the perfect tool for hi sec players.

Did CCP make an update on the Siphon I missed? Please give us a link to this announcement. Thanks in advance. ♥


I am sorry when did I say hisec pubbies would use this? When did I link mission and incursion runners with griefing nulsec moon mining? Oh, yeah I didn't. I did repeat that goons will use this to grief people because it is OP, which has been their repeated concern with these devices and mine. But seeing as the cognitive dissonance is strong in you i doubt you will read or respond to this. I wont hold you up, your leet caravan of courage is off to fight Solar Fleet, don't worry the renters will keep the home fires burning in your AFK passive income empire.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.