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So genuine question, where is CCP and EVE heading?

Author
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#1 - 2013-10-29 15:24:08 UTC
A few days ago CCP set up interviews with the PC gaming only website, Rock Paper Shotgun to talk about Valkyrie, and yet strangely refused to be drawn on whether the game would even be released on PC. I guess Sony exec's read RPS.

Then yesterday, CCP Marketing for some reason decided it was a good idea to sponsor a link on Facebook, linking an article that in itself was possibly paid for on Penny Arcade. The article is an interview of Helicity Boson. In the article Helicity raises some good points about the game for new players. But they still throw in the odd heading quote from Helicity like "It gets fun after 5 years, I swear!" which while very amusing to us players (myself included), is probably not the sort of quote I'd lead with if I was trying to attract new players. And at the back of my mind is that small point of CCP once banning ole Helicity after they desired to see a member of CCP meet a fiery demise or something slower and more painful ideally. How times have changed huh?

The Facebook link, thus being outside of the normal bounds of EVE friendly players, created a true **** storm of negative reactions from those in love with the idea that Star Citizen is going to be the new space love child of Miley Cyrus and Chris Roberts and hit EVE like a wrecking ball (I try too hard sometimes) and those loyal EVE bitter vets gallantly rallying to EVE's defence.

After Incarna, CCP suddenly discovered that openness and transparency were both good ideas. We'd get some fun videos of CCP Guard showing us what was coming and strange and beautiful re-enactments of 2001: A space odyssey. We also had honest interviews with actual CCP Designers and the CEO.

Now we get this:

“Hold on a second, we haven’t confirmed that Valkyrie’s on PC,” he interjected when I idly noted that Dust 514 is the only non-PC extension of the EVE universe. “It’s capable of playing on PC right now, but we haven’t confirmed what we’re going to launch it on.” - David Reid quoted on RPS

Begging the question then, why are you talking to RPS?

And now we have seemingly awkward sit down videos of CCP Guard interviewing people, that apart from the ever likeable and enthusiastic CCP Fozzie (Whatever they put in his coolaid, I want some) was a truly poor introduction to unfinished ideas and a seeming lack of finished actual game assets to show us stuff that apparently is just 8 weeks away from release. What were you guys doing then for the past four months then?

Oh dear CCP. It was all going so well.

Rubicon is without question, one of the lightest expansions yet released. At least Incarna gave us a lovely Minmitar door to stare at, thus ensuring the release of untold vitrol and outrage that CCP finally took notice. Then they gave us Crucible to appease us and a series of expansions fixing much of what was broken, along with the promise of continually iterating on those fixes and features. I'm not sure what Rubicon is though.

Promises to continually iterate on more recent features already seems to have wained. The lead feature on the Rubicon page - hi-sec custom offices being player controlled, hardly smacks of 6 months development time and it certainly doesn't seem like a feature I'd place at the top of Rubicon's list, but lets face it, it is slim pickings.

Yet again, Ship Balancing is being offered to us as some sort of panacea for our continued investment in EVE. In Rubicon they even manage to turn this into the 'Guerilla-style Warfare Support' feature, i.e. rebalanced e-war frigates and dictors folks.

Don't get me wrong, these changes are welcome (including the long overdue fix to warping), but I feel, at this stage ship balancing is being used extensively to paper over the glaring cracks in lack of overall progress and a feeling, from me at least, that real development time in EVE is reducing, not increasing.

And it is easy to see the culprit this time around. Valkyrie.

Rubicon introduces Direct X 11 to the client, but no actual benefit for doing so at this time. Thats because a significant portion of the art and graphics guys have been pulled into Valkyrie. It's pretty obvious that is the case. It is equally clear Valkyrie is CCP's latest cause célèbre in waiting. Will it be on PC, won't it. Who knows. A fanfest tech demo that is now turning into a game that somehow, someway, will be tied to EVE whether we like it or not. Sound familiar?

Yet again this will divert development away from EVE while adding very questionable benefits, for a game focused on an audience for either an expensive Sony VR headset yet unreleased, or an expensive Oculus VR headset yet unreleased neither of which may prove commercially successful and will certainly be considered niche for many years to come. And it isn't like Valkyrie will be the only VR space game in town, a certain other space elephant in the room has promised Oculus Rift support along with actually having no qualms about being a PC game.

So will Valkyrie be iterated on? Tied to the EVE universe but once complete, left to rot? Or will it demand yet more developers. Yet more money while the focus is once more reduced on EVE.

I like what CCP Seagull has envisioned for EVE, but from the Rubicon announcement, it doesn't look like we should expect that vision anytime soon. Not with statements like: "This journey starts with EVE Online: Rubicon, and will unfold over the next several expansions to EVE Online."

Several? Eck! So expect gate building at least two years after it was announced.

I certainly will be hoping that vision is followed through to completion however and not left half baked. Its about time CCP finished one of their better ideas. But personally, I'd like to see an awful lot more being done to develop EVE within that timeframe, a return to iteration and a return to the openness and transparency we were getting not that long ago. Right now, CCP feels like its going backwards on several fronts.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-10-29 15:27:36 UTC
it seems to me that CCP is hardheaded as **** and just can't seem to learn
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3 - 2013-10-29 15:38:55 UTC
Where is CCP and EVE heading?

Turn your back to your monitor, bend over and grab your ankles. Youll get your answer shortly.



Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-29 15:39:05 UTC
Along time ago in a far distant galaxy (see what i did there) Big smile

I logged on to find newer amazing things to see in the EvE Sandbox. A huge bubble of player experiences.

Now we have Dust and some other rubbish and well......

All I can see is big cracks happening in my EvE bubble

Sort it out please

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#5 - 2013-10-29 15:48:58 UTC
CCP believes in change for the sake of change.

So the plan is, to fix all the bugs they've introduced over the last ten years, but it's a twenty year plan.....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-10-29 16:03:09 UTC
they are headed down the gutter...
To Be Me
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-10-29 16:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: To Be Me
Guys are you stupid or something?

CCP IS NOT ONLY EVEONLINE.


Eveonline is just and only one of their games/projects.

As any other company they CCP is in many other ventures, trying new things.


When are you gonna learn this??? Not everything CCP does is about eveonline, it can be connected somehow but its really up to CCP.


Stop being fools.


I even applaud CCP for trying new and innovative things like dust and valkyrie to be played on consolea while still connected to our eve universe. No other company has done anything like it.


And because you cant play on PC thats not a reason to talk, you wanna play buy a console, pretty simple. I much rather CCP have its own way than just generalize everything to PC like all other games on this planet.

thumbs up if you like :))))

RAW23
#8 - 2013-10-29 16:21:59 UTC
There is a sad sense of history repeating itself at the moment. The poor CCP response to a range of small and not so small recent difficulties had created an atmosphere not unlike that which prevailed in the run-up to Incarna (which was presaged by a number of similar issues that left very bad tastes in the mouths of the forum dwelling part of the playerbase at least). If things keep going this way I would not be surprised to find the game's players dropping away in significant numbers. there might not be a great single catalyzing event like last time but a slow drain could be even more damaging as it would be harder to correct for issues that are perceived to be with CCP as a company and their attitude, rather than a single specific decision.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

RAW23
#9 - 2013-10-29 16:23:50 UTC
To Be Me wrote:
Guys are you stupid or something?

CCP IS NOT ONLY EVEONLINE.


Eveonline is just and only one of their games/projects.

As any other company they CCP is in many other ventures, trying new things.


When are you gonna learn this??? Not everything CCP does is about eveonline, it can be connected somehow but its really up to CCP.


Stop being fools.


EvE is the only one that makes a profit though. CCP might not only be EvE online but it depends completely and utterly on EvE. All their other projects, all their development is funded by those playing this game. Last time they pissed off EvE's playerbase sufficiently that had to fire whole teams of people working on the other stuff.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

Prince Kobol
#10 - 2013-10-29 16:25:36 UTC
Stagnation.. sorry I mean iteration Big smile

Personally I am hoping, praying, begging the gods that SC is as half as good as the hype then I can get my internet spaceship fix somewhere else as from what I can see, CCP are doing there best to royally **** Eve up.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#11 - 2013-10-29 16:26:19 UTC
Is it just me, or does it seem the OP spends way more time doing everything but logging in to the actual game?

Mr Epeen Cool
To Be Me
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-10-29 16:32:27 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
To Be Me wrote:
Guys are you stupid or something?

CCP IS NOT ONLY EVEONLINE.


Eveonline is just and only one of their games/projects.

As any other company they CCP is in many other ventures, trying new things.


When are you gonna learn this??? Not everything CCP does is about eveonline, it can be connected somehow but its really up to CCP.


Stop being fools.


EvE is the only one that makes a profit though. CCP might not only be EvE online but it depends completely and utterly on EvE. All their other projects, all their development is funded by those playing this game. Last time they pissed off EvE's playerbase sufficiently that had to fire whole teams of people working on the other stuff.


Ok so what youre saying is that you CCP to be your slave working only towards eve not supportinh them in new things and projects?

Thats what youre saying..

Star citizen gets 20 millions to build a game that WILL disappoint everyone that donated, and you cant support CCP for a couple of plexs a year by letting them do their thing and try new things, company that already has an awesome game that youve played for years.

thumbs up if you like :))))

Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-10-29 16:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Boogi
To Be Me wrote:


Star citizen gets 20 millions to build a game that WILL disappoint everyone that donated, and you cant support CCP for a couple of plexs a year by letting them do their thing and try new things, company that already has an awesome game that youve played for years.


Star Citizen looks awesome.

This game, not so much. The combat sucks, manual flying is a joke, they operate on 1second pings FFS.
The large battles they tout are not enjoyable at all. Unless you enjoy massive forced lag and only getting to shoot off 6 or 7 volleys in 3 hours.

When Eve fails, it will only be because CCP killed it themselves.
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#14 - 2013-10-29 16:37:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Is it just me, or does it seem the OP spends way more time doing everything but logging in to the actual game?

Mr Epeen Cool


Well that is an interesting sentiment, given I have several characters. I have come back from a short break, but I've tried twice to grow my own corp over the last two years, creating a website, TS3 server and forum (CCP never did give us those forums for corps they promised) and spent significant amounts of my personal time trying to make that happen in EVE. But in the end real life has to kick in. I'm starting to play again, but not sure what to do this time around and it will be more casual.

I was previously doing faction warfare, but it's become rather predictable honestly, and the tactics are the same now as they were a year ago and the issue of off grid boosters is becoming endemic to the point of spoiling going out for a simple one vs one fight. Yet another problem CCP promised to fix years ago. But hey - they make more money leaving it as it is.

Probably smaller gang stuff still, but its a case of finding a good corp to do that with, that do a bit of lowsec and 0.0 ideally, and also want me as an FC.

Some stuff with Rubicon has potential, but there is also the risk we'll end up seeing thousands of assault frigates gangs/blobs switching to thousands of interceptors in 0.0 for example (with plenty of e-war frigates thrown in). Time will tell.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#15 - 2013-10-29 16:42:14 UTC
You will continue buying PLEX, and you will LIKE IT!



There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#16 - 2013-10-29 16:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonaura
Regarding Star Citizen, its easy to assume it will be great and all, but there are some pertinent facts to consider.

First off, it isn't finished.

Secondly, it is promising an awful lot. That doesn't mean all of those things thrown together will actually be 'fun'. Having more stuff doesn't make it automatically 'better'.

And lastly, as an MMO, it is going to be based on instances and matchmaking. While the universe and economy will be tied together on one server, the reality is, you won't be able to undock and interact with other players like you can in EVE. That is a massive difference. It is not a sandbox at this stage, and it won't require the same sort of mining, production, pvp cycle that EVE has.

I do think however, it is ironic, that CCP seems to have canned WiS, and yet RSI have raised $25 partly based around some of those concepts being implemented.

While I like the idea of seeing inside spaceships very much, after you've done it a few times, is it really a big deal watching a table come down from the ceiling? What does this really add apart from immersion.

In comparison to CCP's slow progress on EVE though, to what that game is promising, yes, I am very worried and I do think the pace of development from CCP is not enough. You're talking over 2 and a bit years from this fanfest to completion of gate building. Thats quite a lot of man hours. In the same time, entire other space games like Elite will have been made.

PS edit: The last instance based space MMO game - Black Prophecy - is long gone and wasn't popular. Like RSI are promising, you didn't lose your shiny stuff if you died. Don't get me wrong I loved playing X-Wing and Wing Commander, but I also remember the first PC Gamer review of EVE and the sheer excitement the reviewer had about the fact everything in the game was being made by the players.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

To Be Me
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-10-29 16:48:55 UTC
Ace Boogi wrote:
To Be Me wrote:


Star citizen gets 20 millions to build a game that WILL disappoint everyone that donated, and you cant support CCP for a couple of plexs a year by letting them do their thing and try new things, company that already has an awesome game that youve played for years.


Star Citizen looks awesome.

This game, not so much. The combat sucks, manual flying is a joke, they operate on 1second pings FFS.
The large battles they tout are not enjoyable at all. Unless you enjoy massive forced lag and only getting to shoot off 6 or 7 volleys in 3 hours.

When Eve fails, it will only be because CCP killed it themselves.


Eve has beem failing since its launch, and after 10 years it still the same amount of people, only this time with more alts


Wait until you get your tears going if you donated to star citizen.. You will feel like you were robbed.

Star citizen is the biggest scam of todays.


Do you have an idea of what 20 million can do in terms of gaming development? But one thinh i can tell they arent a company to handle that amount of money, they will invest 1/4 of that, put up some random game and keep the rest.

thumbs up if you like :))))

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#18 - 2013-10-29 16:50:00 UTC
Moonaura wrote:

CCP never did give us those forums for corps they promised


Actually, I have set up my own corp in the past and used this feature. Not only does it exist but it's working fine.

Generally though, I agree with your sentiment. It feels like CCP are steering themselves straight towards another Incarnageddon, and are stubbornly refusing to change heading. I love Eve and I want it to be great, which is why this feels so frustrating. I don't want to have to vote with my wallet, because I want to play Eve. But I don't like where it's heading.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#19 - 2013-10-29 16:52:24 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Moonaura wrote:

CCP never did give us those forums for corps they promised


Actually, I have set up my own corp in the past and used this feature. Not only does it exist but it's working fine.


Damn they kept that quiet, where do you sign up? :)

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-10-29 16:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
I suspect the truth is that people at CCP tried the Occulus Rift and then realized that there is a possibility that its was so amazing that if a game doesn't support the Occulus Rift in five years it won't be played.

They immediately put 20 engineers on the case to develop Valkryie.

Source: http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/01/hilmar-petursson-interview-oculus-rift-vr/

Quote:
The question is whether significant numbers of gamers will choose to spend an estimated $300 on a pair of Oculus goggles. For a number of reasons -- some immediate, some futuristic and others downright outlandish -- Pétursson believes they'll come up with the money. They won't be able to stop themselves.


Personally, I've ordered a rift dev kit to try my hand with blender and unity and what not, but if the people on Youtube and various forums are to believed, it is supposed to be amazing and they want to play all their games with it all the damn time. (Just go on youtube and search for "Occulus Rift Reactions" or "Occulus Rift Impressions"

I'll let you know my opinion when I get mine...

Anyways, Star Citizen is going to support Occulus Rift out of the box, so their major competition is going to be using this new technology.

That said, I think Valkyrie is CCP's attempt to compete with Star Citizen at all levels including Occulus Rift support.

Now there is the debate on whether or not Valkyrie will be on the PC, but the funny thing is that at all the places where they demo'd Valkyrie, they used the Occulus Rift. Currently the Occulus Rift is only for the PC.

However, it does not preclude that the Occulus Rift or some other VR headset will work on the consoles.

But this still leaves the question of where does this leave EVE?

If EVE does not get Occulus Rift support with menus and chat display visible on the headset (currently it would be impossible to read and view all the menus because there is a good deal of parts of the screen not visible on the Occulus Rift view around the edges, which is why you have problems with the inventory in the game Skyrim) then people with the Occulus Rift will stop playing it.

So what I am trying to say is that if I get the Rift and its as amazing as they say, I might stop playing games that only use a screen all together which means I'll stop playing EVE and play something that supports it (say Star Citzen or Valkyrie... personally I think from what I know of Star Citzen, I might lean towards that, but if Valkyrie is F2P anyways I will at least try it).

And if the Occulus Rift catches on (which it has the signs of doing), then that means a great deal of people will be spending less time with monitor only games like EVE and most of their time on Occulus Rift supported games.

[edit]

Suffice to say that it is imaginable that EVE could be redone to support the Occulus Rift. Imagine turning your head to different parts of the screen to see chat and inventory.

But its going to take major development effort and time to do this.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

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