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Major Warp Speed problems

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My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#221 - 2013-10-29 10:42:44 UTC
This is going to be hilarious as hell. Going to shake up the game hard.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#222 - 2013-10-29 13:22:54 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Yay forums ate my post (again) - rewrite.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's also very vulnerable to anti-support fire. Like I said, I'm not currently convinced that the warp speeds possible in the current Rubicon design are detrimental to the game overall. I will however be watching them very carefully so if you disagree please take advantage of the power of these ships as much as you can and enjoy the benefits while demonstrating to us why we should change it.


I would recommend taking the time to organise a mass test if this is an issue players feel strongly enough about. This will give you more data and the player base some confidence that their worries are taken seriously. Letting it go live in a state which might really upset people with the mentality of "we can patch it later" is the EA way of working, look how much we like them.

Interceptors being able to warp so fast they can skip dscan is an issue. This isn't an issue with warp speeds but rather the dscan limitations.
Ships instantly appearing on grid and being able to lock before you can react is also an issue.

Everyone in EVE loves ships exploding but this should be the fault of the pilot not because he has no chance due to game mechanics. These changes are another huge blow on making people want to live in NullSec, with this release mining in NullSec is almost dead as any interceptor can be in system and warp to a Grav site (which don't offer hidden protection any more) before miners can react and warp out. This goes for Battleships running anomalies as well, jump in ignore bubble and warp to sanctum you will most likely catch something.

The issues above don't fall entirely on the warp changes, or the interceptor changes but lots of changes to EVE over the years and these new changes being added without revision of content needed to counter them.

as it has been said earlier, one little change would solve this and many other issues: increase te server tick!

but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh....
Gothikia
Wicked Cartel
#223 - 2013-10-29 13:42:19 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
[quote=Turelus]

but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh....


I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :)

<3 Gothie
Tikitina
Doomheim
#224 - 2013-10-29 13:47:16 UTC
Even if this turns out as bad as the doomsayers say, it will be interesting to see how in-game tactics change to combat these changes.

The ship that came from nowhere and got me may not be possible in Eve atm without ban-able hacks, but happens in life more often than not.

You should never have perfect intel and believe that you are perfectly safe unless you are docked.


Now if this will turn out to be game-breaking, or just make life more difficult, I'd like to wait an see.

It shall be fun in either case.
ScheenK
StatiC Ex.
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
#225 - 2013-10-29 14:43:12 UTC
Tappits wrote:
I am from PL and I like all the changes, This is all.....

I would also like to thank Makalu Zarya for been a total knob head and using the “When people unsub their supers and you lose 1000s of active characters maybe you'll listen.” Line.

I would just like to say this to him “YOU ARE WRONG” just like the other 10000 times people like you have said people will unsub there supers because of this and that. Yet here we are 2013 and still people have them are still subbed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y6TqxLmxIo


the last super changes involved, taking away all drones except fighters and bombers, which affected them by needing a subcap fleet for killing of dictors and such, these imminent changes affect supers direct survivability, so yea i can see ppl unsubbing for that simple fact
Benar Ellecon
Card games on MOTORCYCLES
#226 - 2013-10-29 15:03:11 UTC
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Dirk Action wrote:
the warp speed changes are fine

the ACCELERATION from sublight speed to FTL speed that is the warp bubble is fine

the DECELERATION from FTL speed that is the warp bubble to sublight speed is not fine


Here's the key thing to remember. Virtually the entire impact of these changes is ties to deceleration. Warp top speed isn't actually changing much with the changes (and is actually going down for the fast ships), the problem we're fixing with this whole feature is how acceleration and deceleration used to be the same for all ships.

The part of this change you don't like is also virtually the only part that has any impact Blink



I like this side effect, change it so its like that for all ships.

variable acceleration... variable WARP ...then no desacceleration, just BOOOOOM !!! a flash and you see a ship in grid, that come of warp, ready to receive commands and that you can engage right away instead of issuing commands and receive that annoying message "ship is still in warp".

Just like we see ships coming out of warp in the latest 2 start trek movies.

This side effect might be a good thing, its also a game change on top of the speed changes. Now just make it the same for all the ships to make it fair.



This ^
It only makes sense, getting into warp should be based on the ship size/mass but coming out should be the same for all: instant stop. That would make it more even on the landing grid for all.
+1 for this change.

Fly with your hair on FIRE!
Gosti Kahanid
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#227 - 2013-10-29 15:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Gosti Kahanid
Gothikia wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
[quote=Turelus]

but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh....


I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :)


Actualy, it's really easy to change, even a dev said so, but what some people seem to forget, when you increase the serverticks, you increase the server load. So with 2Hz instead of 1Hz, TiDi will spike with 250 people in a system instead of 500.

So yeah, increasing Serverticks without using better Hardware would be a bad idea
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#228 - 2013-10-29 15:33:11 UTC
Gosti Kahanid wrote:
Gothikia wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
[quote=Turelus]

but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh....


I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :)


Actualy, it's really easy to change, even a dev said so, but what some people seem to forget, when you increase the serverticks, you increase the server load. So with 2Hz instead of 1Hz, TiDi will spike with 250 people in a system instead of 500.

So yeah, increasing Serverticks without using better Hardware would be a bad idea



Tidi can spike from even just 20-50 people jumping a gate. but honestly I don't think that action itself would spike it more than before at 2Hz... main load would come from location checks of stuff in space (range, speed, all that), then commands from pilots... so the stuff in space would probably get a static almost double load from it... but player induced lag (minus their ship being in space, which counts as the first thing) commands like shoot or such... would increase with how much they are spamming an action.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2013-10-29 15:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Krimishkev
Sorry CCP but this breaks your game, and you're playing it off as a cool new feature? You cant seriously think Veteran players are that naive?

Lets just be honest here. Someone was messing around with stats and figured this out. "Oh look, hahaha my ship appears on grid instantly wouldnt that **** everyone off.

This is the same kind of issue as the "Infinite Gun" problem that Apaerature Harmonics exploited some time ago, except instead of a player breaking the game, CCP is breaking their own game for who honestly knows what reason.

I have no problem with warp speed, or deceleration speeds. But give the player a visual queue that someone is about to arrive on grid before they actually arrive. Its only fair, otherwise this coupled with a cloak on and interdictor. Completely overpowered.

AFK Cloaky Camping, with and Instagrid Interdictor, yeah.... mhm, thats sounds like working as intended if you want more people to buy PLEX to play your game because they are denied the ability to use their space for ratting.


Oh yeah, I just killed two birds with one stone.

AFK Cloaky Camping and Instagrid Interdictors.

Man, I'm awesome.

[EDIT]

Oh the simple fix, make the grids bigger.
ScheenK
StatiC Ex.
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
#230 - 2013-10-29 15:39:00 UTC
This entire thread is absolutely insane

To even think this issue is still an issue is ********

CCP ffs get your **** together, what sense does it make to be pointed and/or bubbled by something I havent even seen yet, nor would I see on dscan if I had perfect timing.

I know eve stretches the boundaries with being realistic, but it always stretched them in a way that made sense, or worked for the best. for example, orbits of stations and pos's etc, they dont actually orbit, for various and obvious reasons. But to be on a reasonable realistic scale, a ship would not or should not, just instantly "be" out of warp, these changes would ultimately send the pod and pilot through dictors heat/windshield, this seems funny to even think about but, seriously, change the deceleration atleast, to give ppl a chance, all we are asking for is a chance to save our ships. One does not simply appear out of warp, actually you dont even appear, you just drop ur bubble, mwd out and warp off. awesome gg, cant wait
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#231 - 2013-10-29 15:47:57 UTC
I'd have to look for the post, but CCP Veritas has already said that they know the per-tick cost of things and they know with absolute certainty that those costs scale pretty linearly.

If you double the rate of server ticks, you double the load on the servers. You double the cost of everything in the game. That means that at a 2Hz tick, CCP would need twice the computing power it has now in order to get the same level of performance we currently have with 1Hz ticks. Is anyone going to help them refactor the code to be multi-threaded and/or donate to them server equipment that's twice as powerful as what they have now? (Does it even exist?)
Dirk Action
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-10-29 16:04:04 UTC
v0v

let it be known that the players tried to warn the devs

it'shappening.gif
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#233 - 2013-10-29 16:16:23 UTC
Gothikia wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
[quote=Turelus]

but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh....


I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :)

well, this is not what was said a few month ago, CCP stated they didn't thought it was necessary at that time even if it was an easy change to do.

anyway, this doesn't change the fact that this need a clear answer, because this is the real issue, so a clear statement from CCP about this is required for a year at least, and is STILL NOT AVAILABLE.

i could understand if it was complicated or if there was any issues caused by this, but so far the only attitude from CCP on the subject is just ignoring the feedback, and this is not good at all.

at least an aknowledgement of the issue, because it is clear and easy test are able to narrow it down to the server tick being too slow, but it seems that even that is too much to ask....
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2013-10-29 16:18:56 UTC
Krimishkev wrote:
if you want more people to buy PLEX to play your game because they are denied the ability to use their space for ratting.



Greed is good

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#235 - 2013-10-29 16:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'd have to look for the post, but CCP Veritas has already said that they know the per-tick cost of things and they know with absolute certainty that those costs scale pretty linearly.

If you double the rate of server ticks, you double the load on the servers. You double the cost of everything in the game. That means that at a 2Hz tick, CCP would need twice the computing power it has now in order to get the same level of performance we currently have with 1Hz ticks. Is anyone going to help them refactor the code to be multi-threaded and/or donate to them server equipment that's twice as powerful as what they have now? (Does it even exist?)

said level of performance is on the bad state since last years winter update, when somewhere a setting was messedd up and made everything laggy all over the place...and the servers remain the same, and don't tell about nb of players because this even happen when the load is very low like right after DT.

a delay has been introduced somewhere in the code, but no one wants to take a look at it, even if it breaks some basic mechanics of the game, this whole insta on grid thing is just another occurence caused by this, time to get your hand on it CCP.

regarding the improved code / hardware, maybe it would have been a better bet to actually improve one of those or both but to waste money on dust, wich is after all just money thrown by the window (oh look, we, eve player, didn't saw it coming AT ALL ...) they never learn......
Tikitina
Doomheim
#236 - 2013-10-29 17:27:56 UTC
ScheenK wrote:
This entire thread is absolutely insane

To even think this issue is still an issue is ********

CCP ffs get your **** together, what sense does it make to be pointed and/or bubbled by something I havent even seen yet, nor would I see on dscan if I had perfect timing.

I know eve stretches the boundaries with being realistic, but it always stretched them in a way that made sense, or worked for the best. for example, orbits of stations and pos's etc, they dont actually orbit, for various and obvious reasons. But to be on a reasonable realistic scale, a ship would not or should not, just instantly "be" out of warp, these changes would ultimately send the pod and pilot through dictors heat/windshield, this seems funny to even think about but, seriously, change the deceleration atleast, to give ppl a chance, all we are asking for is a chance to save our ships. One does not simply appear out of warp, actually you dont even appear, you just drop ur bubble, mwd out and warp off. awesome gg, cant wait



I am so amazed that CCP hasn't paid attention to this threadnaught..

Oh wait.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2013-10-29 17:37:46 UTC
Deleted
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2013-10-29 20:06:24 UTC
These changes all sound great to me and anyone that disagrees obviously doesn't know what they're talking about
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#239 - 2013-10-29 20:43:50 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
These changes all sound great to me and anyone that disagrees obviously doesn't know what they're talking about

Everything you post is a troll. You don't actually care at all, you sham.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#240 - 2013-10-29 22:15:05 UTC
We discovered another funny side effect of all this which I forgot about. The Rancer type smartbombing gate camps no longer work for ships that appear instantly, since you simply don't load grid until you are already on the gate. Negative ten won't be too happy about this.