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Drone Regions
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Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2011-11-17 21:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae
K Suri wrote:
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
BigCountry wrote:

BTW is they took out alloys the mineral vacuum that would create would be rediculous...

Not really. The Vacuum would be filled by Mining which would draw a much larger crowd as supplies of Minerals dwindle and costs increase.

Which in turn will make for more ganking opportunities, the killing of more Hulks, making more forum rage, driving up mineral and T2 goo prices even further................ making the CFC and Russians richer......

The more things change..................................


I dont agree with you... prices would not be that high at all...

but...

So... what are you saying...
keep little man broke so that some big mans don't have more???

I'm surmising that if there is truth in 74% of minerals is supplied by drones and the slack gets picked up by miners, then the majority of supply is bought into contestable space.

I say "contestable" in that the drone goo comes from solidly occupied space now that would require a major invasion to choke supply.

With a shift to predominately highsec mining (that's an assumption) - a concerted event like Hulkageddon with Goons input could put a serious dent in the supply - at least in low-ends.

Just a thought.






And... what were prices of minerals before drone regions are introduced???
You see... we would get back at that state...
and then was not this problems you are talking about...

yea... it would be one big BUM in prices for some time until all comes down to its place... but if all would come back around that numbers that was then...

and now i am feeling like ppl that was trying to prevent this economical crisis in world and no one wanted to listen...
this state in which EVE is is like world economical crisis... and its killing eve...

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-11-17 22:52:32 UTC
whats the difference about monetary inflation and devaluation of some goods???
I don't see a difference...
minerals ARE isk for indy ppl!!!
Avila Cracko
#43 - 2011-11-18 00:09:32 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I don't understand. Why the drone regions? Mining is broken, not the drone regions. CCP should fix mining and make it worthwhile again.
So many people harvest drone alloys for a reason: because it is more efficient and less tedious than mining. The problem is mining. Drone harvesting is working, mining is not. So why get rid of the working part instead of fixing the broken part?

This is an important part of fixing Mining. Minerals are not ISK but can be exchanged for ISK. When the amount of Minerals being brought in outstrips the amount being destroyed the price goes down and stockpiles rise.

Eliminating a major source of Minerals outside of Mining will thereby increase the value of the Minerals being Mined.

Mining Fixed.


I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?


You maybe wont set a foot into a mining barge...
But there is a lot of ppl that want it... that like not intense gaming while chatting with corp mates... and that will do it if it would be profitable...
And you cant blame them now for not mining...
Today, mining in EVE is beneath a dignity of every human being...


Elanor Vega wrote:
whats the difference about monetary inflation and devaluation of some goods???
I don't see a difference...
minerals ARE isk for indy ppl!!!

+1000

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Vettanine
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-11-18 00:24:31 UTC
Catlos JeminJees wrote:
Gealla wrote:

I do as much ratting up there as I did in providence and wicked creek and make about the same sort of money doing it. I'd prefer bounties as then I wouldn't have to ship all the crap out......



Quoted for truth


I make about the same(if not less) amount of Isk here than i did in catch. the only diff is that i have to move all my mineral out and that costs me more isk that goes to other players


Implying you ship anything out is funny, because we know that you don't. You sell to the local barons and they utilize the minerals to build caps/supers and JF the excess into empire at their leisure. You aren't paid jita asking for your minerals, but you don't have to worry about moving them either.

I've lived all over the east on my alts to make isk and it's by-far one of the safest means to make isk in nullsec, even though it is certainly not an actual isk faucet. That doesn't mean there are some inherent drawbacks for managing the operation of drone region nullsec vs. somewhere else, but those hurdles have been jumped years and years ago and the rewards are obvious now.
Rykuss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2011-11-18 01:08:35 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I don't understand. Why the drone regions? Mining is broken, not the drone regions. CCP should fix mining and make it worthwhile again.
So many people harvest drone alloys for a reason: because it is more efficient and less tedious than mining. The problem is mining. Drone harvesting is working, mining is not. So why get rid of the working part instead of fixing the broken part?

This is an important part of fixing Mining. Minerals are not ISK but can be exchanged for ISK. When the amount of Minerals being brought in outstrips the amount being destroyed the price goes down and stockpiles rise.

Eliminating a major source of Minerals outside of Mining will thereby increase the value of the Minerals being Mined.

Mining Fixed.


I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?


Nope, noone expects you to mine a single rock. Keep flying around blowing things up and having fun, as normal. There is an alternative to mining already in place, buy the minerals.

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-11-18 01:14:54 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:

Elanor Vega wrote:
whats the difference about monetary inflation and devaluation of some goods???
I don't see a difference...
minerals ARE isk for indy ppl!!!

+1000


This is completely true. If you replaced the minerals from drones with money, you just make minerals more expensive... which if you stop there (like some people have) seems to be good for miners. But if minerals are more expensive so are ships and therefore the extra money you make really isn't extra because the value of the money you make is still the same.

D: There really is no way to make mining more profitable.


Ferox #1
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-11-18 01:20:06 UTC
I don't live in the drone regions, but I don't have a problem with gun mining. It's a major source of high-end minerals and I really don't want to mine bistot/crokite all day.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#48 - 2011-11-18 01:36:44 UTC
I live in drones, and i vote for bounties. However, saying that, i understand the problem with adding another isk faucet, which begs to ask, how is isk destroyed in the game.

I know, the lp store
insurance
clone grades

I think the solution to the problem is too fold. CCP would have to develop more ways to destroy isk, while putting bounties on rogue drones.

Now for the most obsurd idea of the day. You dont have to remove the minerals from the rogue drone wrecks. Granted you could reduce the ammount in rogue drone battleships, but you dont have to kill it. You kill an npc battle ship it may have well over a mil in loot dropped, no reason why there cant be .5 - 1.5 mil in drone poop in the drone to match their npc counter parts. This solution along with developing more isk destruction methods would cope for the new isk faucet and buffer the destablization of mineral prices.

perhaps an isk for lp exchange would help destroy isk while adding personal wealth to players.

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-11-18 02:06:43 UTC
Insurance actually creates ISK btw :o

Ferox #1
Avila Cracko
#50 - 2011-11-18 07:42:42 UTC
Kietay Ayari wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:

Elanor Vega wrote:
whats the difference about monetary inflation and devaluation of some goods???
I don't see a difference...
minerals ARE isk for indy ppl!!!

+1000


This is completely true. If you replaced the minerals from drones with money, you just make minerals more expensive... which if you stop there (like some people have) seems to be good for miners. But if minerals are more expensive so are ships and therefore the extra money you make really isn't extra because the value of the money you make is still the same.

D: There really is no way to make mining more profitable.





Yea... there is...
Because indy ppl don't need isk for all things in game...
They can produce things for themselfs...

End right now... big problem for miners/indy is to buy even skill-books (things from NPCs) and thats just so lame... Sad

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
#51 - 2011-11-18 07:48:03 UTC
Razin wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
Get rid of mineral drops from drones!!!!



Yea... mineral faucet from drones must be removed...

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?



Remove minerals from drone regions.

Add in a new line of items like

Rogue Drone - Weapon system
Rogue Drone - Propultion System
Rogue Drone - Navigation System
Ect
Ect
Ect

Then make is so you can reverse engineer a T2 drone and these rogue drone items and make a Faction style rogue drone.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-11-18 07:58:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Rykuss wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I don't understand. Why the drone regions? Mining is broken, not the drone regions. CCP should fix mining and make it worthwhile again.
So many people harvest drone alloys for a reason: because it is more efficient and less tedious than mining. The problem is mining. Drone harvesting is working, mining is not. So why get rid of the working part instead of fixing the broken part?

This is an important part of fixing Mining. Minerals are not ISK but can be exchanged for ISK. When the amount of Minerals being brought in outstrips the amount being destroyed the price goes down and stockpiles rise.

Eliminating a major source of Minerals outside of Mining will thereby increase the value of the Minerals being Mined.

Mining Fixed.


I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?


Nope, noone expects you to mine a single rock. Keep flying around blowing things up and having fun, as normal. There is an alternative to mining already in place, buy the minerals.



If it is true that 74% of the minerals come frome drones, then buying will be very difficult once you eliminate the drone drops altogehter and the eve economy loses 74% of its base with a single blow.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind decreasing drone drops at all, but please, pretty please, only AFTER mining has been fixed and the economy can cope with that. Once ccp changes mining in a way that people want to mine again, it would be a whole different situation and I wouldn't mind myself having spent so many SP in scrapmetal reprocessing.
As things are now, forcing people into mining again by eliminating the alternative ways to aquire the minerals would never bring enough people back to mining to satisfy the market's demand. It would be like asking the players to bot. And I don't like the idea of rogue drones being replaced by human bots.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Severian Carnifex
#53 - 2011-11-18 08:14:11 UTC
Quote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:


This is an important part of fixing Mining. Minerals are not ISK but can be exchanged for ISK. When the amount of Minerals being brought in outstrips the amount being destroyed the price goes down and stockpiles rise.

Eliminating a major source of Minerals outside of Mining will thereby increase the value of the Minerals being Mined.

Mining Fixed.


I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?


Nope, noone expects you to mine a single rock. Keep flying around blowing things up and having fun, as normal. There is an alternative to mining already in place, buy the minerals.



If it is true that 74% of the minerals come frome drones than buying will be very difficult once you eliminate the drone drops altogehter and the eve economy loses 74% of its base with a single blow.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind decreasing drone drops at all, but please, pretty please, only AFTER mining has been fixed and the economy can cope with that. Once ccp changes mining in a way that people want to mine again, it would be a whole different situation and I wouldn't mind myself having spent so many SP in scrapmetal reprocessing.
As things are now, forcing people into mining again by eliminating the alternative ways to aquire the minerals would never bring enough people back to mining to satisfy the market's demand. It would be like asking the players to bot. And I don't like the idea of rogue drones being replaced by human bots.


CCP said that they are ok with mining like now and that dont want to make it more interactive...
So thats the dead end.
AND I DON'T WANT TO BE BROKE FOR NEXT 3-4 YEARS TILL CCP GETS SOME STUFF...

and... read this:

Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:


And... what were prices of minerals before drone regions are introduced???
You see... we would get back at that state...
and then was not this problems you are talking about...

yea... it would be one big BUM in prices for some time until all comes down to its place... but if all would come back around that numbers that was then...

and now i am feeling like ppl that was trying to prevent this economical crisis in world and no one wanted to listen...
this state in which EVE is is like world economical crisis... and its killing eve...


We didn't have problems then... we would not have it now!!!
So i don't give a damn how much % is from where!
And i don't give a damn about other things... mining and industry allways suffers becouse that other things...
But i don't know from where ppl pull out that number of 74%... that would mean that prices fell 4 times (400% down) after drone regions are introduced... and i think its max 50%...

And YOU CAN NOT MINE WITH GUNS!!!!
**** drones... mining is here from beginning of game... and it can not be ruined by some new stuff CCP thinks its cool...
If we could without drone minerals before... we can now too!!!
Aquila Draco
#54 - 2011-11-18 11:09:23 UTC
Jooce McNasty wrote:
Razin wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
Get rid of mineral drops from drones!!!!



Yea... mineral faucet from drones must be removed...

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?



Remove minerals from drone regions.

Add in a new line of items like

Rogue Drone - Weapon system
Rogue Drone - Propultion System
Rogue Drone - Navigation System
Ect
Ect
Ect

Then make is so you can reverse engineer a T2 drone and these rogue drone items and make a Faction style rogue drone.


The best thing would be that CCP make some new things to drop to remove minerals from dropping and reduce isk dropping... But better that drones drop isk then minerals!!!

I read in other thread about this subject that someone proposed that drones drop little of moon goo...
That way moon goo would not be any more apsolutly in big alliance ownership... some small bit of it will be for small ppl to take...
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#55 - 2011-11-18 11:42:46 UTC
Razin wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
Get rid of mineral drops from drones!!!!



Yea... mineral faucet from drones must be removed...

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?


Why replace it when there are already too many?

Mission loot amount/quality has already bean stick nerf -> less minerals

Market reaction: 0, nothing changed

Removal of drone alloys, needed

You can inject has many minerals has you want -in the process CCP replace alloys on the database for low lvl minerals please- so in the process the demand/offer is not sustainable for a lot of time.
There are stock holders for gigantic amounts but it's only a matter of time and their interest is not to inject those on the market but to wait until prices raise.

The next minerals faucet I hope to see in game is the one mined by miners actually playing the game and not AFK or boting.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-11-18 12:09:48 UTC
Nothing, what more did you expect? Lol
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2011-11-18 12:15:15 UTC
Sorry i am late, just completed my 30th horde for the day, netting me over a billion isk in sales of compounds, escelation sales and T2 salvage sales to Jita.

What are we talking about here?

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#58 - 2011-11-18 12:19:47 UTC
You know, I think the drones should be left alone. Yeah they don't give isk, they give alloys. So, it doesn't make the alliance isk rich by ratting directly, but it ups their production capabilities. And, if they want good isk, they can just export them to high sec to sell. Putting a bounty on the drones just devalues the isk even more and causes a rise in inflation even more. The thing about the drone regions is that they're not creating too much new isk like, say for example, fountain.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-11-18 12:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
You know, I think the drones should be left alone. Yeah they don't give isk, they give alloys. So, it doesn't make the alliance isk rich by ratting directly, but it ups their production capabilities. And, if they want good isk, they can just export them to high sec to sell. Putting a bounty on the drones just devalues the isk even more and causes a rise in inflation even more. The thing about the drone regions is that they're not creating too much new isk like, say for example, fountain.


the problem is drones completely devalue the mining industry...

give them a bounty and the occasional augmented Or integrated or harvestor drone and mining laser and ice mining laser upgrades as loot drops.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Rykuss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2011-11-18 13:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rykuss
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Rykuss wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I don't understand. Why the drone regions? Mining is broken, not the drone regions. CCP should fix mining and make it worthwhile again.
So many people harvest drone alloys for a reason: because it is more efficient and less tedious than mining. The problem is mining. Drone harvesting is working, mining is not. So why get rid of the working part instead of fixing the broken part?

This is an important part of fixing Mining. Minerals are not ISK but can be exchanged for ISK. When the amount of Minerals being brought in outstrips the amount being destroyed the price goes down and stockpiles rise.

Eliminating a major source of Minerals outside of Mining will thereby increase the value of the Minerals being Mined.

Mining Fixed.


I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?


Nope, noone expects you to mine a single rock. Keep flying around blowing things up and having fun, as normal. There is an alternative to mining already in place, buy the minerals.



If it is true that 74% of the minerals come frome drones, then buying will be very difficult once you eliminate the drone drops altogehter and the eve economy loses 74% of its base with a single blow.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind decreasing drone drops at all, but please, pretty please, only AFTER mining has been fixed and the economy can cope with that. Once ccp changes mining in a way that people want to mine again, it would be a whole different situation and I wouldn't mind myself having spent so many SP in scrapmetal reprocessing.
As things are now, forcing people into mining again by eliminating the alternative ways to aquire the minerals would never bring enough people back to mining to satisfy the market's demand. It would be like asking the players to bot. And I don't like the idea of rogue drones being replaced by human bots.


Again, noone would be forced to mine. Where does this come from? Why should there be an alternative to mining? Because you don't like it? That's not really an argument, it an excuse in my opinion. It would be like asking the players to bot? Really?

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.