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Increase shield/armor by 200%, nerf logi.
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Bandua
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-28 16:01:12 UTC
Best explained by example.

In 0.0 warp to a gate and caught in a bubble. If its a camp, good chance they're ready and waiting for that to happen, be in a pod before you can react.
On the other end of it, the campers are racing to get a target lock before the ship is destroyed.

Basic idea is it allows a buffer for reaction time, strategy planning. Makes 1vs5 fights a bit more challenging as the "1" has a chance to either plan an attack or escape.

With the change in shield/armor, the logistics ships would need a huge nerf to balance large fleet engagements.

Alternative would be modifying the resistance training rather than raw HP.

This in effect should change engagements from 5-30 seconds, to 2-5 minute battles.

It also adds the element of risk to fleet roams. Gang of 5-10 goes to gank a lone pilot, they know before hand they're going to have to commit for at least 2-5 minutes, giving the pilot the chance to retaliate, either grinding them down 1 by 1, or calling reinforcements from a nearby system, or escaping at the last second.

Vrenth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-10-28 16:07:39 UTC
Bandua wrote:
Best explained by example.

In 0.0 warp to a gate and caught in a bubble. If its a camp, good chance they're ready and waiting for that to happen, be in a pod before you can react.
On the other end of it, the campers are racing to get a target lock before the ship is destroyed.

Basic idea is it allows a buffer for reaction time, strategy planning. Makes 1vs5 fights a bit more challenging as the "1" has a chance to either plan an attack or escape.

With the change in shield/armor, the logistics ships would need a huge nerf to balance large fleet engagements.

Alternative would be modifying the resistance training rather than raw HP.

This in effect should change engagements from 5-30 seconds, to 2-5 minute battles.

It also adds the element of risk to fleet roams. Gang of 5-10 goes to gank a lone pilot, they know before hand they're going to have to commit for at least 2-5 minutes, giving the pilot the chance to retaliate, either grinding them down 1 by 1, or calling reinforcements from a nearby system, or escaping at the last second.



Kill the logi. More than one? Neut the logis. They already have hard counters, and are already plenty balanced. Your opinion is noted.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2013-10-28 16:58:55 UTC
Years ago this same EXACT proposal was made for precisely the same EXACT rationale. CCP then implemented it.


Care to guess how effective it was? (hint: you are asking for it to happen again)

How did you Veterans start?
Cael Autumn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-10-28 18:45:29 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Years ago this same EXACT proposal was made for precisely the same EXACT rationale. CCP then implemented it.


Care to guess how effective it was? (hint: you are asking for it to happen again)



They also power-creeped dps numbers up quite a bit.

In the old days, a 1000-dps blaster megathron or torp raven WAS king. Now the 1000 dps mark can be broken by t3s, battlecruisers, all races of battleships...

Heck, you can get 800 dps out of a vexor nowdays.

They already buffed small gamgs - with ~15 percent local rep buffs across the board.


Increasing buffer would only hurt artillery ships effectiveness.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5 - 2013-10-28 18:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Bandua wrote:
Best explained by example.

In 0.0 warp to a gate and caught in a bubble. If its a camp, good chance they're ready and waiting for that to happen, be in a pod before you can react.
On the other end of it, the campers are racing to get a target lock before the ship is destroyed.

None of what you suggested will change any of this whatsoever. Furthermore, what is the problem here?

Quote:

This in effect should change engagements from 5-30 seconds, to 2-5 minute battles.

It also adds the element of risk to fleet roams. Gang of 5-10 goes to gank a lone pilot, they know before hand they're going to have to commit for at least 2-5 minutes, giving the pilot the chance to retaliate, either grinding them down 1 by 1, or calling reinforcements from a nearby system, or escaping at the last second.


Might want to work on your math there. That's not a realistic affect of what you've proposed.

Cael Autumn wrote:

Heck, you can get 800 dps out of a vexor nowdays.


Actually you've always been able to do this with a vexor.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#6 - 2013-10-28 19:01:07 UTC
This is an excellent plan, OP. I would love everyone to have 200% more buffer to work with when I'm flying logi. I could be even more of a force multiplier by being able to spread myself thinner and thinner around the fleet. Not OP at all. Roll
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#7 - 2013-10-28 19:13:53 UTC
Bandua wrote:

Basic idea is it allows a buffer for reaction time, strategy planning.


CCP has already given you a 30 second buffer by giving you a cloak after gate jumping for 30 seconds.

In 30 seconds you should be able to assess the situation and determine whether or not to fight, or run back to the gate and jump back, or burn out of the bubble while shooting the tackler and laughing.

If you are using your buffer tank to do this..then you are playing wrong, and it probably has something to do with that NPC corp you are in.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2013-10-28 19:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
OP... you missed the point I was trying to make.

People complained about dying in 5 to 10 seconds before the previous hp buff.
The result was that people CONTINUED to die in 5 to 10 seconds because campers, gankers, and fleets just brought more people to compensate.

Other, unrelated results included...
- buffer tanking being massively buffed (to the point where people said "buffer-fit or GTFO")
- active tanking falling out of favor due to buffer tanking having MUCH more Hp over a shorter time frame (which is only now being corrected)
- soloing and small gang warfare became harder (cant chew through that buffer fast enough before his support arrives)

How did you Veterans start?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2013-10-28 19:45:55 UTC
if you want to nerf logi add a penalty to RR. The higher the ship resistances the less HP is repaired.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#10 - 2013-10-28 20:08:19 UTC
No.

TTK of more or less every ship in small fights shoots up, gankers and large fleets get larger and the results there do not change at all.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#11 - 2013-10-28 21:04:55 UTC
Eve has some great features and one of them is logi. I don't really fly logi, but i find myself giving them tips time and again because they are so awesome. When we fail to break tank because of logi, so what? They have better fleet comp compared to us. Perhaps we need more cap warfare etc. There is always a counter.

Can you find the pilots to field it? That is really the question.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-10-28 22:17:55 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Bandua wrote:
Best explained by example.

In 0.0 warp to a gate and caught in a bubble. If its a camp, good chance they're ready and waiting for that to happen, be in a pod before you can react.
On the other end of it, the campers are racing to get a target lock before the ship is destroyed.

None of what you suggested will change any of this whatsoever. Furthermore, what is the problem here?



gonna say this. A game balanced for 1 vs 5 would be really unbalanced. In this case 1 ship would be "uber" facing 5 "uber" ships. Its gonna be the same result.


I am also wondering why he didn't bounce off a celestial and scan the outbound off the top of my head. usually landing in bubbles a bad way to start a fight. This was basic 0.0 101 taught to me anyway....don't warp straight to gates with non-blues in system.


If by chance they jsut jumped in and set up camp that's jsut bad timing and rates a welcome to eve. And a sign of campers with some skill to get this up that quickly.