Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think this is a good and healthy discussion to have. But I don't agree with a lot of suggestions. And I'm extremely cautious of suggesting CCP make wholesale changes as the last time they did, it nearly ended Incursions entirely.

I also think that one of the primary drivers of the current set of 'problems' is community driven, not mechanics driven. Asking CCP to make mechanical changes to overcome people being ******** children that can't play with each other is not the answer I don't think. There's going to be bad behavior...this is Eve where 40k of your closest sociopathic friends come to join you every day at griefing each other...CCP isn't going to want to fix that. The cooperation we had in TVP/BTL:TDF era is going to be the exception, rather than the rule. I don't like it, but again, it's Eve.

However, I do think there is a case to be made that the HQ fleets in particular have become so popular that CCP could consider adding more of them. Either in the form of a 4th or 5th HS incursion, or adding a 6th or 7th HQ site per system (which would cause TiDi probably...). In 2011 and into mid 2012, there were generally no more than 2 HQ fleets at one time in the game. TDF and TVP with an occasional 3rd from elsewhere. Today there are 7 (I think) standing communities that are considered primarily HQ communities and the 2 numerically largest (TVP and W2M) can during their prime time usually field 2 HQ fleets. Plus there are a couple of other entities like EveUni that occasionally do HS incursions as well. A 4x at least increase in participation over previous levels in the HQs.

CCP has responded to the 'resource constraint' of the single SOE L4 mission agent by adding 2 more, so I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that CCP look into responding to what could be branded as a 'resource constraint' of HQ sites for the daily activity we see today.

I could also support I suppose bringing down the respawn timer. As I said above, there always has been, and certainly will always be those who can't play well with others. This would lessen the impact of that. But I think relieving the current resource constraint would go further. This would just be a Band-Aid on the symptom.

I would also certainly support a well-crafted strategy of improving the richness of the incursion experience with more variety and wider range of difficulty. CCP's history of not iterating on features argues against this...but like others who have run 10-15k or more HQ sites over the past 2+ years would be happy with some more variety...but I think that's a separate topic for another day.

So tldr; Treat it as a resource constraint is my opinion. If CCP wants it to be constrained, they should leave it as is. If they'd like to encourage more players to participate, like the SOE L4's, increase the number of incursions in HS or possibly more HQ sites per system...most of the other suggestions are not likely to happen or to fix the visible symptoms of what is really happening in my opinion.

Noma

Isn't that true of any ship and pilot in EVE? So by that logic Frigs regardless of whether it is piloted by an AI or a sweaty teenager should be no problem for a well prepared and trained BC pilot. It's simply not true.

I don't want to beat each other over the head with semantics, Incursions are not Zero risk, changing the mechanics for a timed delayed spawn to appease the instant gratification sector is a bad Idea. If the Mom spawns there should be nothing but a willing fleet to delay it's death. And there is already so many aspects of EVE that is 100% risk free, that saying Incursions should not be 'risk free' is simply trolling for a bite.

+1

My 5 month old alt can run incursions, they are stupidly easy and i make so much isk that null sec is pointless. Nerf/ bring them into line CCP.

Incursions should move after like 500 sites have been run, farming them for a week is a joke and a major source for the isk printing. Sites should last the current time or until they are run, then they move to the next location, which could be in hi/ low/ null. No more hisec 'static' incursion printing machines.

OP totally brings forward the current problems and gives a very lovely suggestion for a solution to it.
I totally support it! =)

a very old post i said about changes to incursions ...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=781833#post781833

in summary
1) rework sizes for max number of pilots in a fleet
VG - 8, AS - 14, HQ - 28, MOM- 50

2) XX scratch that XX

3) maybe CCP should consider. 5% overall reduced damage for all sites, but add in 5% more enemy ships.

4) yes introduce smartbomb armed sansha cruiser with Vylade type resilience. 1 per VG, 2 per AS, 3 per HQ, 4 per MOM. increase MARA repping capability by 200%.

5) increase sansha enemy booster capability. VG - +80% shield HP, AS - +60% shield HP, HQ - +40% shield HP, MOM- +20% shield HP. booster cruiser gets extra 100% shield HP. booster also supplies extra 50% shield omni resistances. this means there is now a definite kill order in most sites. booster --> logi --> dps

6) upping the above, rewards are expected to be increased. estimated time required for each site could go up by 50%. and rewards should go up a general 50% across the board incl LP.

7) configuration of a incursion cluster. each incursion cluster should now be spanning 3 adjoining constellations, with a total of up to 20 HQ gates, up to 35 AS gates, up to 99 VG gates. 2xMOM fleet will spawn in 2 systems at random within the 3 constellations and ... they spawn on top of a system NPC station (no longer spawn in warp gate type of spawn). HQ and AS gates spawn randomly in centre systems of cluster, and VG in the surrounding.

instead of multiple spawns, there is now only 1 hisec, 1 losec, 1 nullsec clusters. in any of the cluster, 30 random VG gates will appear and must be destroyed to spawn 20 AS random gates, and all 20 must be destroyed to spawn a random 10 HQ sites. every 2 site destroyed will trigger a spawn of 3 more of the same kind of site (up to its limit per cluster, eg max 99 VG gates). once all 10 HQ gates have been cleared, 2 random NPC stations will be set upon by 2 MOM fleets 1500km off the station. a fast scout will be reqd to do a warp to in order to engage a take down. both MOM must be removed to completely clear incursion cluster (the MOM fleet have a engagement radius of 600km, can be viciously preloaded, and drawn to the station to attack it, cmon ccp, i do miss live sansha event)

after deployment of 2x MOM, if they are not removed in 9 days, all 3 constellations will be over-run by sansha, ie ... all system gates recieve free sansha VG sized gate camps (OTA style) for entire play duration ending at next DT, all these gate camp sansha party carry null level bounty. on this 10th day if MOM is still not removed, LP will be forfeited.

some players (pro gankers) suggests they have the right to AID sansha ... if they like this so much ... i suggest ccp introduce a player anchorable sansha battle station that proclaim a system a sansha system. like a null claim beacon, pirate players (negative standing to current empire location) buy this from a roaming neutral sansha transport ship moving all over the 3 constellations, @ 4000m3, they anchor this station off the SUN warp in point, and the beacon will draw a pesky bonus MOM sized sansha fleet and 5 scouting fleets OTA sized that will move all over the system warpable structures (stations, moons, planets, etc) to attack and cyno in the main MOM fleet to attack any player uncloaked in system except the anchoring corp (the transport trader can only trade with a player with a corp wallet, costs of activating this bonus live feature fleet is 250m isk for a beacon). the bonus MOM fleet carries null level bounties plus the usual MOM drops. by activating such a beacon, the beacon will stay in service until player destroyed or for the next 7days until DT, the beacon renders extra 50% shield HP and 5% damage to all sansha ship within same system. each incursion cluster can only carry 1 such bonus MOM. when this beacon is anchored, the influence bar will turn 100% orange.

after a cluster has been destroyed, it will take 12 hrs for new cluster to form ...

hows the above mechanics for extra excitement and mayhem in incursions?

Most suggestions in this thread are bad, some are ok, but unnecessary.

#1) If people would stop flying with a certain community that starts with a "D", things would be fine.

#2) I don't mind the Mom being popped, sometimes its better that I'm forced to stop the grind.

#3) Mechanics are already in place.....

Suppose you see someone forming a mom fleet. Currently people do:
* Form one and kill it faster, so at least you win the site
* Go in, lay down a lot of DPS, then clear scrams and warp off, so if the other group does go in, you can come back and still win (of course, 99% of the time this plan leads to the other group coming to kill the mom immediately, as they can't tell what your plan is)
* Do nothing, but complain in local afterwards
* Get people on as many gates as possible so you can run sites a bit longer.

Another option: Reship to Tornados, alpha the FC of the fleet, alpha as many ships as you can.


To those saying its risk free:
Then why do people routinely die to rats?
Is there some mechanic that blocks suicide ganks? no? so then you take a risk by flying a shiny fit to get that ISK/hr.
And yes, people do get ganked, I recently remember a Tornado fleet operating in the HQ system, and it got a few kills (and one of our fleet members, with full boosts - shield and armor - overheating hardeners, survived with 11% structure)

To the "end game-drake" argument - You can do fleets in drakes, but a drake fleet would have an abysmal ISK/hour, and it would lose every contest. I don't see it as an issue.

A few points:

a.) Truth be told I'm very hesitant to support opening the highsec incursion resource faucet. The incursion community is smart enough counter NPC's, meaning these are essentially low-risk faucets. If you want the faucet opened wider, it MUST come with more risk.

b.) The SOE bottleneck is nothing like the incursion bottleneck. A LvL 4 missions pay out much less than incursions, and most of those mission runners would be running missions anyway. SOE is currently a target purely based on speculation of incoming SOE ships, which will be an isk SINK.

c.) Instead of a mechanics change to slow the reduction of the blue bar & mothership spawn; howabout you create a means for players to interfere. Make it so players can "increase" the bar somehow. For example: have an Anti-Concord sites that allows you to enhance the incursion hold on an area. Have it give out Sansha LP (which would have been the perfect tool to acquire mobile cyno jammers). Increase the Bar enough, and the mothership despawns....

d.) Ultimately, this game thrives on conflict. There is conflict within the incursion community, and that means CCP has a decent design. Incursion communities now simply need to utilize ingame means to resolve the conflict (suicide ganking, wardecs, etc). While peace may be found, it should always remain fragile, and it should be up to the players to uphold it! Work it out, fight it out, but don't whine at CCP to make it for you!

i think GTA5 is a good example of mayhem and conflict game. but id like ccp to give us more game content ... more new ships .... more variants in ships

and spawn a CONCORD mother so that interfering pilots can win.

suspect timers for peeps in a sansha or concord mother site so that players can be involved in the defence of a mother....oh if only.