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thinking about getting into incursions...what ships should i look at?
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Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-10-28 14:24:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Wingmate
i'm thinking about getting into incursions. what ships should i look at?

i've got specialization IV on all weapons and all gunnery supports to V, so that's not an issue. i've got BS V in amarr and BS IV in other battleships. i'm at close to 100m SP so it's not like i'm short on ship skills. i've got logi V and cal/amarr cruiser V as well, but i'd prefer to shoot things since i've got such high damage output compared to most toons.

i did these a year, year and a half ago, and flew an apoc navy that did very well. are armor ships still viable, though? would it be better to shield-tank an apoc navy, or go for a nightmare or machariel? i crap damage either way.

thanks in advance. i know there's a lot of fits out there, but most of the ones on battleclinic even i can tell are bad. i'd just rather have my stuff ready to go rather than trying to figure it out when i've already headed to the zone.

edit:

here's a few i put together. i don't know the ranges required so these likely need to be modified, but i guessed. the apoc has .06732 tracking and costs about 1.1b at 760 dps, and the nightmare has 20km less optimal but .08483 tracking and around 860 dps, for 1.35b. it's also more cap stable despite not having a cap mod (5m5s vs 9m20s, without the remote cap transmitters running). lemme know what you think. always wanted to fly a nightmare anyways but never had the chance.

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, incursion shield]
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Tracking Enhancer II (a third RFTE adds .00004 tracking, for another 125m Cry )

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith B-Type EM Ward Field

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

[Nightmare, incursions]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Large Shield Extender II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#2 - 2013-10-28 15:03:07 UTC
Go with the NM, you will get picked a lot quicker. With the Apoc you'll be like the fat kid at kickball.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-10-28 19:32:34 UTC
what's the range required for shield fleets? armor was like 100km, hence, the napoc.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#4 - 2013-10-29 08:03:55 UTC
Depends on the sites you are running

For VGs most people go with Tachs for NMC and OTA, Pulse for NCO.

The bigger sites most people go with Tachs. NM and Mach are the Kings of incursions.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-10-29 11:56:17 UTC
NM, Mach, and Vindi are kings of incursions.

Nothing ensures victory in a tower bash site better than a vindi at close range firing away with Neutron cannons with void - and with garde IIs out.

The NM fit you posted is quite respectable.... its not up to certain groups' standards... but you need quite a bit of trust in the logis to run the better fits.


Quote:

[Nightmare, incursions]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer -> drop for a 4th heat sink in HQ sites
Damage Control II -> drop for a 4th heat sink in VG sites

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II -> Pith C type or better invuln (preferably better for HQs)
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II -> Drop for a 2nd Sebo in VGs, or an A/X type MWD in HQs
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script preferably faction
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script see above
Pith B-Type EM Ward Field Drop for a 3rd TC
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script preferably faction
Large Shield Extender II drop for a 4th TC or a TP

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L all of the above, switch to tachyons, except perhaps for VG fleets facing an NCO wall
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II consider fitting a shield rep, particularly in a VG fleet running with only 2 logis (HQ sites its pretty useless)

Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II ->Core defense extender (note the drop of an LSE above)
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II -> Locus or elutration rig, note that TCs give much better tracking boosts than the rigs, but rigs give a bigger optimal boost
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I -> EM reenforcer II (note the drop of the B type hardener above

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-29 13:13:26 UTC
good info.

yeah, i went with t2 TCs and sebos because the faction ones give such an incremental upgrade over the normal ones, particularly the sebos. on a BS it's a .4s difference in locking a frig-sized hull between one faction and one normal sebo (about 10-15mm total difference). the TCs are better, but i'd prefer not to put a quarter of my assets into one ship unless it's a capital.

so it looks like i'd want to bring two fits, and fly a nightmare. one tachyon, one pulse. i thought tracking mattered more? i guess the ranges must be huge then. any mach fits out there? are they artie fits or just barrage'd autos?

what about vindi fits? are they actually armor fits, or are they just shield buffer fits? i know i've got a *lot* of damage in one of those, so that might be fun too. if machs and nightmares are the ones most flown, though, i'd want to go that route rather than pigeonhole myself.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-10-30 14:29:22 UTC
Quote:
on a BS it's a .4s difference in locking a frig-sized hull between one faction and one normal sebo (about 10-15mm total difference). the TCs are better, but i'd prefer not to put a quarter of my assets into one ship unless it's a capital.

0.4 seconds is about half a second.... which often is the expected life of certain targets after the fleet obtains a target lock....
Its very useful in contests for getting the shots off on the targets first.
Its not a big deal on fleet when not being contested
Btw. is that time analysis for 1 sebo, or two?

As for the TCs, its simply a matter of putting out more DPS, the TCs are what... 200 mill? 4 of them isn't even a bill.
As always the first 1-2 are worth more, the last one is stacking penalized, and the faction vs T2 difference is almost negligible.
You could put just 1-2 on there.

Quote:
so it looks like i'd want to bring two fits, and fly a nightmare. one tachyon, one pulse. i thought tracking mattered more? i guess the ranges must be huge then. any mach fits out there? are they artie fits or just barrage'd autos?


In HQs, you'll mostly be shooting at BSs and cruisers MWDing towards you, the tach tracking is sufficient, and they put out more DPS at range than scorch, most ranges are 40km or greater.
In VGs, there are now more cruiser spawns, and on NMCs, the new waves often burn straight towards you with MWDs on, a quick locking fleet is able to knock them all out before traversal gets high, thus you're back to the better alpha and damage projection.
The same arguments apply to artys, and yes, there are many arty mach fits.
I do carry Mega pulses and some scorch crystals, so I can change out for NCOs if we're forced to do those.

Quote:
what about vindi fits? are they actually armor fits, or are they just shield buffer fits? i know i've got a *lot* of damage in one of those, so that might be fun too. if machs and nightmares are the ones most flown, though, i'd want to go that route rather than pigeonhole myself.

Obviously you can fit them armor, but most fleets run with shield tanks and shield logis, and the vast majority of vindis that I see (granted, I fly a shield tanked Nightmare, so...) are shield tanks.
Vindis are also flown a lot, I don't know why they were omitted by the previous poster. They are very desirable for their webbing of small targets (they make great drone bunnies), and their ability to "crap DPS" to finish off HQ sites fast - likewise in VGs, no BS tracks better, so they are also very desirable (combined with their 90% webs)
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-10-30 16:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Wingmate
that sebo difference is between a single faction and a single normal sebo. it's like 12mm total. if there's two faction, one of each, and two normal, then it's still around the same difference. i see what you're saying, though, so i guess that is worth it then.

looking over the fit, though, i'm noticing that the nightmare has a pretty low overall EHP without that damage control. is it still going to be OK? with one pith c-type invuln i'm looking at 64k ehp, and that's super low for a 3b fit IMO.

fit i'm looking at now is:

[Nightmare, incursions optimized]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Shield Booster II

Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

with a spare RFTE, tracking computer, and t2 invuln sitting around in the bay, with some pulses.

edit: so, what's a good vindi fit, then? i'd think it would be tough to get it tanky enough in a shield fleet.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-10-30 17:15:30 UTC
Well, the fit I posted assumed you are running 2 OGBs with navy mindlinks, giving you better shield/armor resist, and +15% to shield and armor.
I wouldn't fly it in a pick up group.

The max shield boosts from a lvl 5 command ship with a siege mindlink is better than a 2nd invuln - Note that they also boost the repping power of the logis.
The armor boosts are nice, but not needed (but can help if one tries to gank you, or you broadcast late.. most don't expect the added armor buffer that comes from OGB armor boosts for a shield fleet).

VGs are pretty easy, and the DC isn't needed if you are with a *good* fleet.
If its people you don't know, I'd keep it on there.

If local spikes, particularly with people with low sec status... I'd just dock up and do a T2 fit.

I know some people that fly officer fits, and consider faction fits disposable - when gankers are operating in system, they "downgrade" to faction fits, while others downgrade to T2 fits.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-10-30 19:04:54 UTC
yeah, i don't have enough isk for multiple spare fits XD

thanks for the info. i'll definitely be keeping my head up once this wardec goes down and looking for close incursions.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
PopplerRo
#11 - 2013-10-31 03:51:25 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=206859 has covered a large amount of the basic info and other sources for incursions.

My suggestion would be to join most of the channels in the list and check out the specific needs and fittings of each community for what best suits your needs, as some communities do have higher standards than others to achieve different goals whether it's max isk/hr or the mindless grind