These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Interceptors

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#641 - 2013-10-25 23:22:01 UTC
I am just sad that the Raptor doesn't have four mid slots. If anything it needs them more then the crow does. (Condor / Merlin Hybrid? Yes Please)
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#642 - 2013-10-25 23:25:25 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
For once, large T2 bubbles got 40km radius and 80km diameter. Finally got where your issues are.


Other than my pathetic mixing up of radius and diameter, no, t2 large bubbles do not have a 80km warp scramble range. They have a 40km warp scramble range. Not from the center, but across. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mobile_Large_Warp_Disruptor_II

Quote:
Please, how bad are you to die to a small group of interceptors with a 5-10man gang (dying as in you cannot make use of the now even longer gap between light tackle landing and fleet landing to dispose of those ceptors)


Reading is fundamental. Nobody said anything about losing a gang to a gang of interceptors. The problem is when you're roaming, killing ratters, and the usual home defense blob of 30+ pops up on your radar. It's run time. You run. You drop bubbles behind you to create separation. You gank any of their light tackle that gets too far ahead when you've cleared 3-4 jumps, you drop aggression, you keep running.

Nullification breaks this because now dropping 'DIC bubbles means nothing in terms of creating 3-4 jumps of separation before you can aggress, wait out aggression, and then continue to run. Instead of creating separation, you get no separation and you're stuck in a system with aggression as the 30+ duders behind the interceptor cover your in and out gates. Then it's bouncing safe times and loggoffski.

Quote:
If there is anything ruining your apparently daily hercules attempts of taking on 30man gangs with 5man fleet, then it is the general warpspeed dynamics that are changing, but not wether or not ceptors got to burn for 4 seconds.


Reading, again, fundamental. The argument isn't that nullified interceptors break your ability to "take on 30 man gangs with 5 man fleet", but that it breaks your only tool to create separation from those gangs, the 'dictor bubble. The warp speed changes don't really hurt you that badly, since it means that the interceptors will simply get way ahead of their gang. The problem is keeping interceptors from jumping straight into you during your run which is where the 5-10 seconds you get from 'dictor bubbles saves your ass.

Losing the one avenue we had to create separation from home defense blobs means the small gang meta in null-sec is dead. All hail easymode 5-10 combat interceptor gangs ganking ratters and being able to safely run from any gang composition that is thrown against them.


Wait... Are you telling me that interceptors will "Intercept" - You don't say....
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
#643 - 2013-10-26 00:06:15 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
XavierVE wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
For once, large T2 bubbles got 40km radius and 80km diameter. Finally got where your issues are.


Other than my pathetic mixing up of radius and diameter, no, t2 large bubbles do not have a 80km warp scramble range. They have a 40km warp scramble range. Not from the center, but across. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mobile_Large_Warp_Disruptor_II

Quote:
Please, how bad are you to die to a small group of interceptors with a 5-10man gang (dying as in you cannot make use of the now even longer gap between light tackle landing and fleet landing to dispose of those ceptors)


Reading is fundamental. Nobody said anything about losing a gang to a gang of interceptors. The problem is when you're roaming, killing ratters, and the usual home defense blob of 30+ pops up on your radar. It's run time. You run. You drop bubbles behind you to create separation. You gank any of their light tackle that gets too far ahead when you've cleared 3-4 jumps, you drop aggression, you keep running.

Nullification breaks this because now dropping 'DIC bubbles means nothing in terms of creating 3-4 jumps of separation before you can aggress, wait out aggression, and then continue to run. Instead of creating separation, you get no separation and you're stuck in a system with aggression as the 30+ duders behind the interceptor cover your in and out gates. Then it's bouncing safe times and loggoffski.

Quote:
If there is anything ruining your apparently daily hercules attempts of taking on 30man gangs with 5man fleet, then it is the general warpspeed dynamics that are changing, but not wether or not ceptors got to burn for 4 seconds.


Reading, again, fundamental. The argument isn't that nullified interceptors break your ability to "take on 30 man gangs with 5 man fleet", but that it breaks your only tool to create separation from those gangs, the 'dictor bubble. The warp speed changes don't really hurt you that badly, since it means that the interceptors will simply get way ahead of their gang. The problem is keeping interceptors from jumping straight into you during your run which is where the 5-10 seconds you get from 'dictor bubbles saves your ass.

Losing the one avenue we had to create separation from home defense blobs means the small gang meta in null-sec is dead. All hail easymode 5-10 combat interceptor gangs ganking ratters and being able to safely run from any gang composition that is thrown against them.


Wait... Are you telling me that interceptors will "Intercept" - You don't say....


Interceptors intercepting is fine as long as there is a counter to them becoming risk free null sec shuttles!
Alain Badiou
Combine Honnete 0ber Advancer Mercantiles
#644 - 2013-10-26 07:29:09 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Now the following will probably sound slightly hostile at times. Sorry about that, at least i liked the warp changes?

I hate just about everything here.. I don't even know where to begin.

Crusader has 2 midlots ergo it is **** no matter what else it does. Its like a ****** slicer with no range (And i'm pretty sure that even with the tracking bonus it still doesn't track as well as blasters.. and does less damage.. Why is scorch still the only thing lasers are good for?)

Maledictionnot absolutely awful but fittings are still a lot too tight if you want to actually fit a tank on it. There is a difference between meaningful fitting choices and needing to gimp the damn thing.

Raptor, 3 mids and shield tanking.. So either i don't fit a web.. Or i don't fit a tank? Great, that basically means that this will be a kiter 100% of the time. Well that is if you ignore the fact that ALL lml ships are better at kiting than this.

Crow Well i'm glad to see you're finally accepting that utility high slots are the worst slots.

Taranis fittings are still pretty awful.. I don't really see a point in the slight HP nerf seeing how its hardly overpowered as it is.

AresWhat the flying ****? like, i don't even know what to say... Why? like.. i don't even know... lml Ares... i hate this idea ALMOST as much as i hated t2 res marauders... Just.. Don't do this, its awful.. Also 30 powergrid.. I have a saved fit that has 0.5pg left over without any guns and a ******* festival launcher.. Just.. What the ****?

Claw Ok are you just ******* with me now? The claw.. a ship that gets bonuses to AC's.. has 45 PWG? So.. The Ares.. that uses blasters... where the smallest ones use 4 pg.. has 30.. But this.. that can use AC's that require 1 god damn powergrid has 45? No, this is not ok. You can't just give AC fitted minmatar INFINTE fittings so that they can use artillery.. Decrease the ******* stupid fitting gap between Arties and AC's so that a ship can fit Arties without having ALL the fittings with AC's

A Claw with a full rack of 200's will have 40 pg left over... meaning that with minor fitting implants you could fit a full rack of AC's.. and a 400mm plate.. Yes having only 2 midslots is terrible but unlike the Crusader this will actually have GOOD tracking.

(for those who are interested a Taranis with a full rack of neutrons has around 19.5 pg left over.. less than 50% of what the Claw will have.. And the Ares has even LESS.. I have no words.. really..)

Stiletto4 mids, still probably the best of the bunch when it comes to the general role of being an interceptor and it even has sensible fittings. I have no real problems with this one.


Bolded for emphasis. Perfect fitting skills and to decently fit a Taranis (like putting a damn web on it with neutrons and only buffer tank) requires a goddamn 3% PG implant. Ares, requires a 1% PG implant. Christ.

Also Ares split weapons - like my comment about the Eris. Just *************** NO. Either/or, not both. ****.
Alain Badiou
Combine Honnete 0ber Advancer Mercantiles
#645 - 2013-10-26 07:37:15 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
GREAT CHANGES!

I absolutely love how you guys are giving Roden ships selectable missile or turret damage, and these will perform in much the same way a few Minmatar fleet ships will.

+1


Except 2 gun slots and 1 missile slot is not "selectable missile or turret damage". It is the same split system as before with a lost bonus.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#646 - 2013-10-26 14:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Alain Badiou wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
GREAT CHANGES!

I absolutely love how you guys are giving Roden ships selectable missile or turret damage, and these will perform in much the same way a few Minmatar fleet ships will.

+1

Except 2 gun slots and 1 missile slot is not "selectable missile or turret damage". It is the same split system as before with a lost bonus.

So you get double (was +5%) bonus on whichever weapon system you choose with what almost amounts to a built-in damage mod for the secondary 'filler' weapon and you consider the loss of tracking, a bonus that is pretty much redundant for all but the biggest rails which Interceptors can't even fit in the first place, too high a price?

And that is on the fleet hull, the one that isn't even expected to do much damage wise .. how much of an overbuff would it need to satisfy I wonder Smile
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#647 - 2013-10-26 23:08:22 UTC
gascanu wrote:
The Lobsters wrote:
Pliskkenn wrote:
.


hmm, ppl are still thinking about intys like solo ships;
maybe i'm wrong, but i think that after this rebalance intys will become one of the most used ships in roamig gangs: so if you have a pack of this things in a gang there is no need for all of them to have both scram and web fitted Blink



Considering the effectiveness of Attack frigs as solo boats it's a reasonable expectation imo.

Let's look at it this way.

Attack frigs are the natural predecessor for the interceptors. In the fleet tackle role they perform very well, fitting the required mods, out running drones, killing them etc. Moving then into Fleet interceptors a pilot can expect the same strengths but better, in all the things that matter to a Fleet Interceptor, more specialised to the role.

Attack frigs are also fitted and flown as combat ships too (Kill-ceptors). To great success, especially in Low-sec. Flying them rewards good piloting, good fitting skills, good understanding of the meta and each of them are more than capable of getting great punk kills. They are paper thin and a single mistake can go bad quickly but being mobile with decent ewar options they are good at dictating the terms of the engagement or getting out if the plan goes south.

The Claw and the Crusader may fit into a limited niche role in Null-sec, but for the big frig users of New Eden, Low-sec AB scrubs like myself, they are now and will continue to be a non-event. What we want is a Super Executioner and Super Slasher that will be able to 'good fight' a Taranis. Now that's a Combat Interceptor!


Please Fozzie, for the love of gameplay and low-sec, give them 3 mids.

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#648 - 2013-10-27 16:15:37 UTC
Fozzie needs to move a high to a mid on all ships considering they are tackle ships shouldn't the emphasis be on tackle not dps you could always give them double damage bonuses to compensate the dps loss...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Roger Arkani
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#649 - 2013-10-28 00:15:47 UTC
If with warp speed changes interceptors just appears on grid that's game breaking, I'd say this is more serious than bubble immunity and needs to be fixed before release. I guess proper solution will make programmers (or their managers) cry other amount of needed work, but something needs to be done. Maybe less of the warp speed effect on de-acceleration.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#650 - 2013-10-28 00:48:41 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Fozzie needs to move a high to a mid on all ships considering they are tackle ships shouldn't the emphasis be on tackle not dps you could always give them double damage bonuses to compensate the dps loss...


no slots are fine as they are
Sleepy Buddha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#651 - 2013-10-28 06:16:33 UTC
Not Intie pilot yet, but here are my comments -how I see the ballanced solution.

Fleet interceptors - should be able to fit for speed and scan res with long points and kite till fleet arrives (which means puny dps, mid and low slots and higher scan res).

Combat inties - should be able to fit either brawl or kite setups with better tank then their t1 cousins and higher base speed + high agility. Solution can be either in HP buff or t2 res.

Sig radius is stupidly high now (AFs are better with lvl 4 skills).

I am just comparing them to AFs and t1 frigs and they really should be able to get on their t1 counterparts (at least in their combat variants).

Nullification and warp speed changes are nice, but I would keep them just for the fleet ceptors (to keep the ballance).
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#652 - 2013-10-28 09:53:48 UTC
Sleepy Buddha wrote:
Not Intie pilot yet, but here are my comments -how I see the ballanced solution.

Fleet interceptors - should be able to fit for speed and scan res with long points and kite till fleet arrives (which means puny dps, mid and low slots and higher scan res).

Combat inties - should be able to fit either brawl or kite setups with better tank then their t1 cousins and higher base speed + high agility. Solution can be either in HP buff or t2 res.

Sig radius is stupidly high now (AFs are better with lvl 4 skills).

I am just comparing them to AFs and t1 frigs and they really should be able to get on their t1 counterparts (at least in their combat variants).

Nullification and warp speed changes are nice, but I would keep them just for the fleet ceptors (to keep the ballance).




Ships are balanced towards level 5 skills. Not elvel 4 ones.

The combat interceptors are no different from tfleet ones. Its just flavorish and wishful thinking.

THey are too weak to be real COMBAT vessels, adn their main usage is to kill the fleet interceptors and maybe some EAF.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#653 - 2013-10-28 10:46:14 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Fozzie needs to move a high to a mid on all ships considering they are tackle ships shouldn't the emphasis be on tackle not dps you could always give them double damage bonuses to compensate the dps loss...


no slots are fine as they are


no slots need changing

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#654 - 2013-10-28 10:57:30 UTC
Fozzie it would be nice to see a response like you did on the interdictor thread, these changes can in no way be final as presented on the first page.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#655 - 2013-10-28 14:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Update for you all:

We're doing a pivot on the plan for Roden shipyards, gonna go a little less ambitious with the design. This means changes to the Ares, although the core role isn't any different. I think the more traditional split weapons systems can still work as a niche playstyle, but it appears putting it on commonly used ships (even ships that don't use their weapons for their core role) was causing a bit too much discomfort. We'll be keeping an eye out for a more appropriate place to reintroduce them later.

The new Roden philosophy is pure hybrid turret, no more mixed weapons and less reliance on drones than Duvolle and (obviously) CreoDron.
The bonuses will skew towards railguns (but work fine with blasters as well), and will tend to be Optimal, Tracking, and Damage. Roden will keep its pattern of fewer mids and more lows than the Gallente average, and above average armor HP. We'll also be giving them a bit more than the average lockrange for Gallente ships, to go along with the optimal bonuses.

Gallente Frigate Bonuses:
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range per level
7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking per level

Interceptors Bonuses:
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
5% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level

Turrets: 3 (+1)
Launchers: 1 (-1)
Powergrid: 33 (+3)
CPU: 145 (-5)

OP has been updated.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Tuxedo Catfish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#656 - 2013-10-28 14:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuxedo Catfish
Excellent news. I honestly didn't find the split systems on the Ares that offensive (since it essentially gave you the option of using either, rather than forcing you to use both), but more lock range would definitely be appreciated.

I eagerly await your second pass of the Eris.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#657 - 2013-10-28 14:25:52 UTC
interesting change to roden shipyard... above average armour is still only 400 on ares really????
if its going to be essentially an armour buffer version of caldari rail/resists style at least do it right

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#658 - 2013-10-28 14:29:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Update for you all:

We're doing a pivot on the plan for Roden shipyards, gonna go a little less ambitious with the design. This means changes to the Ares, although the core role isn't any different. I think the more traditional split weapons systems can still work as a niche playstyle, but it appears putting it on commonly used ships (even ships that don't use their weapons for their core role) was causing a bit too much discomfort. We'll be keeping an eye out for a more appropriate place to reintroduce them later.

The new Roden philosophy is pure hybrid turret, no more mixed weapons and less reliance on drones than Duvolle and (obviously) CreoDron.
The bonuses will skew towards railguns (but work fine with blasters as well), and will tend to be Optimal, Tracking, and Damage. Roden will keep its pattern of fewer mids and more lows than the Gallente average, and above average armor HP. We'll also be giving them a bit more than the average lockrange for Gallente ships, to go along with the optimal bonuses.

Gallente Frigate Bonuses:
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range per level
7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking per level

Interceptors Bonuses:
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
5% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level

Turrets: 3 (+1)
Launchers: 1 (-1)
Powergrid: 33 (+3)
CPU: 145 (-5)

OP has been updated.


Ok, but why would I ever fly this over a malediction?
Lydia vanPersie
SHAKIRA LAW ENFORCERS
#659 - 2013-10-28 14:41:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We'll also be giving them a bit more than the average lockrange for Gallente ships, to go along with the optimal bonuses.


Rubicon!Ares: 30.5km(+5.5)
Imicus: 35km

We just want to use our rig slots fozzie, can't we have this much?

(^;
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#660 - 2013-10-28 14:44:29 UTC
You should swap the sensor strengths of the caldari interceptors.

All tackle ceptors had the best sensor strength before.