EVE Fiction

Nope, they weren't.

The Thukker, for the best part, were all living out in the Great Wildlands aboard huge space faring trade caravans. After the Elder Fleet invasion of the Amarr Empire in YC110, quite a few of them returned to the Republic, and now they have full representation on the Tribal Council.

The tribe you're thinking of are the Starkmanir, who were thought extinct by the hands of the Amarr Empire, however genetic research by the Sisters of EVE found there were still several colonies of them left under the boot of the Empire. A little under 100 million of these were uplifted during the Elder Fleet invasion and were relocated to the Republic where they now live as free men and women, also with representation on the Tribal Council.

Bear in mind that although 100 million people might seem like a large number, in terms of the demographics of the Minmatar Republic, it's literally like pouring a cup of water into the Atlantic Ocean, and the Starkmanir make up a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population of the Republic.

Hope this answers your question. If you'd like to read more about the Starkmanir and the Thukker, there's a fair few articles on the EVElopedia, and there's a lot more detail on the Republic and its demographics, along with the demographics of the whole cluster coming in EVE Source, which should be ready for publication in 2014.

i think its in the 3/5 trillion range

I think there are some slightly crossed wires on timing here.

The Great Caravans weren't established before the Day of Darkness and they didn't have their full presence in the Great Wildlands until after the Great Rebellion.

They were, however, very important players in the Great Rebellion.

I can't really say more until EVE Source is published. It should cast a lot of light on these questions though.

Cheers,
DZ

I'm pretty sure the Gallente Federation alone is around 3 trillion citizens.

2014 sometime, it's currently been sent off to the publishers for them to work their magic after CCP Gnauton spent many a long hour editing and compiling everything that we all wrote for it.



You're thinking a bit too small, but you'll have to read EVE Source to find out, sorry!

Speaking of populations... IIRC there was a Scope news report when Foiritan was elected that mentioned that a record number of 2.8 trillion Gallente citizens voted. I'll assume that the total population of the Gallente federation is 3 trillion (wrong but I know it and I'm lowballing it here).

The Evelopedia's entry on Gallente Federation states that 1/3 of the Federation's population is composed of Minmatar giving the Federation about 1 trillion Minmatar citizens. Then, the entry for the Minmatar Republic explicitly states that only 1/5th of all Minmatar live in the Federation meaning that there are ~5 Trillion Minmatar in existence.

The wiki goes on to say that only 1/4 of all Minmatar live in the Republic, thus giving it a population of ~1.25 Trillion. Now the entries for the Caldari state and Amarr Empire lack any real detail on their population sizes in comparison to the Republic or the Federation. If someone was willing to furnish me with some details I could go on *Cough*CCP Falcon*cough*but until then nothing more can happen.

New Eden is overpopulated.. It is approaching the population burden that fueled the original exodus into New Eden. Every station in existence probably houses 10-20 million people, using a city like New York or Tokyo as a guide. I recall seeing something somewhere that suggested living on a station was preferable to a planet due to the population pressures on planets... That could be a low figure, not having a solid population figure for stations.

Check out the worldometer and you can see that earths population grows by a number in the thousands every minute of every day. At a current population of 7 billion, we have only just begun to tax the available resources. And we have nowhere near the technological savvy that New Eden does.

Trantor, the galactic capitol in Asimov's works housed 45 billion at it's peak. Using that as a likely cap on a planetary population, Trantor is described as a city planet, 20 such planets will get you close to the 1 trillion mark. How many habitable planets are in New Eden?

An average of 15-20% of the American population actually votes in elections. If the Federation has a similar quotient, your report of 2.8 trillion voting there would put it's population at more like 15-30 trillion. Children don't vote, nor do the majority of citizens..

The wormhole worlds are probably experiencing a massive colonization effort at present. And the population is growing exponentially every day..

A good guess at total population in New Eden is likely 100 trillion or better...

Asimov also talked about "a hundred agricultural planets" to feed Trantor.

The issue is not territory, but energy and food. There was a grim esitmate that said that, if the Earth was used to feed and grow only human and their food, the population cap would be 400 billion. That was a very optimistic estimate that didn't accounted for ecological footprints, so likely the actual number would be smaller from a physical point of view, and far far smaller from a psychlogical and social point of view.

We do know that New Edenites don't engineer gas giants, so their chemicals supply is limited to solid bodies, which have a serious lack of water and nitrogen. And even terraforming a solid body can prove very difficult as life can't be just sped up. Manufacturing soil is a slow business no matter how you do it. Also terraforming efforts are very sensitive to war. FAI, let's say that your planet is too near to the star, so you shade it with a giant orbital umbrella made of something like mylar. Destroying or disabling such a massive and frangible structure would be a child's play and the consequences would be terrible. The more edge case a body is, the more frangible and vulnerable it becomes.

So all in all, i tend to think that carry capacity in New Eden is limited by the circumstances. The few naturally inhabitalbe planets are extremely valuable but frangible, and everyone else is facing destruction in case of a social conflict that disrutps terraformation. So nobody dares to stress its resources.

Just a minor little niggle (one that you are already aware of) I just wanted to say that if we wanted to extrapolate total population from a national election then a 2.8 trillion person vote would indicate it to be much larger. Just for example, in the United States slightly less than 25% of Americans are under the age of 18 (and thus can't vote [though I'm not sure what the voting age in the Federation is]) and only about half of the eligible voting population participates in national elections in a presidential election year. Now, it's entirely possible that demographics and participation of the Federation more closely emulates Western Europe (perhaps more possible) and would then have a lower portion of the population being less than the age of majority and a large percentage of people would vote in elections. So, as you quite rightly point out and as CCP Falcon alluded to, 3 trillion is too small.

If we did guess based on these election numbers (and I am not familiar with that particular piece of fiction but I'll run with it) I would say it's more likely that the true number is the neighborhood of 6-10 trillion.

I used cities like New York and Tokyo as references. How many battleships are docked at Jita? How many crew does each of them have? several million just in crews at Jita every day.

These are major cities in space, granted some may have only several hundred thousand, on smaller stations. But, major stations support millions.

As to nul, how many titans do the big nul alliances sport? Carriers? Dreads? Battleships? Now what kind of infrastructure, ignoring crews, would be required, in boots on the ground, to maintain your ships, stations and sov? New Eden is overpopulated, and not by a small margin.

Take a city like Detroit, just beause you can't feed, house and employ the people, do you think they are just going to stop living there? Then stick them in a tin can, where they require the services of a space ship, just to leave. Many people move into situations looking to better their lives, when that doesn't pan out, they are still there.. Ever seen a carrier undock from a low sec station?

Babylon 5, which cannot support cruisers docking, fictionally supports 250 thousand, now take that little space station and sit it next to Jita 4-4.... Compare the sizes..So, how many died when the Broker rammed a Nix into a station?

Further, zoom out from a station. Those spires are buildings, high rise apartments, world trade centers, corporate office buildings, parks, etc.. Real cities in space..